To find middle class parents insufferable?

[Gwst]

Sorry rant incoming! I'm so sick of how since becoming a parent half the people I speak to seem to be insufferable snobs about the area we live in (in a big city). Schools are "terrible" despite good ratings, couldn't possibly be good enough for their children, and are upset they don't live in a posher area, too many undesirables round where we live, complaining about drugs etc when this is an issue that 100% doesn't affect their demographic. I've recently had someone say they had to move to the suburbs because at their local school all the parents had "a can of coke in one hand, a fag in the other and 10 kids" and another saying a nursery wasn't good enough as they didn't want their child looked after by someone with a speech impediment. Both of these left me with my jaw on the floor shocked someone would think it's OK to say that but they seem to have no embarrassment about saying it to me, a casual acquaintance. And the area we live in is full of creative types, ostensibly left wing etc but also seem to hold these reactionary views when it comes to their kids.

The thing about schools drives me mad as I guarantee most of these people have zero experience of attending or their kids attending a challenging city comprehensive. It's just this perceived bias that their kids will get bullied or become drug dealers or other crap that they heard from their parents as to why they went to private school and are now parroting but can't afford private school or a posh area themselves. I went to a pretty crap school but I came out with good grades and went to a prestigious uni. It wasn't all great but it was a realistic cross section of society and arguably gives you good expectations of the real world and that fact that not everyone in your community is privileged etc. But no one seems to care about that and just wants to look out for themselves and everyone else be damned.

I am middle class myself lol. And my kid is going to have plenty of (unfair) social advantages anyway without us having to get them into "the best" school or only socialise with other middle class people. I just really don't get it. Am I alone in thinking like this??

Like you, I also went to a fairly mediocre school but managed to pass exams and went to uni. My only experience of this has been friends and acquaintances that have been privately educated having concerns around the state system.

Tbh it doesn't really surprise me - you can only go on your own experiences.

I feel conflicted, I want my DDs to experience different walks of life and become well rounded individuals, but I also want them to have the best opportunities - and to go a "better" school than I did.

I'm aggressive 😂

I went to a mixed local comp in the 90s/2000s in a small town with it’s fair share of depravation and social issues. I never felt unsafe at school and I did ‘very well’ for myself.
That same school in that same area today is a completely different place, there are known problems with knives, drugs and the exam results have fallen off a cliff.
My point is that when we were at school, even in crap areas it wasn’t unsafe and schools were able to work it so that those who wanted to learn still could.
Over the last 20 years schools have been stripped of all of their power and most of their options when it comes to dealing with problems while at the same time being handed more (too much) responsibility for their students and being penalised financially if they fall short. Therefore lots of schools focus on behaviour management first and education second (or third, fourth, fifth).
I’m paying through the nose so that my child can have basically the same school experiences and education today that I had 25 years ago for free

But genuine question - do people often rub you up the wrong way and you struggle to forge friendships?

Maybe so but I've never actually come across this personally. The people who say it to me always went to a selective school or fee paying

I know but I can try to cut the odds. Knife crime is far more prevalent in inner London than it is in rural Hampshire.

Nowhere is completely safe though. We all live with that fact.

I taught in a school like that.

The truth is... there were excellent teachers. There were children who wanted to learn.

But we also had to do Lockdowns for real due to Gang problems spilling over into the school. My "top set" was those predicted higher than a C. High levels of absence.

Frankly... I wouldnt have sent my children there.

But my children do now attend their local Comp. Its catchment ranges from million pound houses (in Yorkshire!) To temporary housing. Its a very supportive place. In a location many would speak dispargingly about.

I would never feel guilty for trying to better my financial circumstance or my environment for my family or myself.

If that makes someone upset, who cares? They can fill the space I leave open.

To each their own.

Some hefty generalising going on there.

You dont give up do you

Are these people you “speak to” friends? If so where are you meeting them?

My kids went to the local primary and comprehensive (admittedly I targetted where I live so that my kids could go to the best school possible) and am glad that they didn’t have to attend the worst schools in our city.

I think it’s pretty rude to assume they only middle class parents make an effort to fight for schools. They may have a reputation for sharp elbows but I think it’s not unusual for people who aren’t middle class to consider the local schools when moving house.

The thing about schools drives me mad as I guarantee most of these people have zero experience of attending or their kids attending a challenging city comprehensive.
I don’t understand this. Most people would choose to avoid a challenging area regardless of whether or not they had experience.

This is definitely the case, but there's also an issue that if a whole group of parents congregate together and segregate their children from other children based on income etc, then that greatly exacerbates the problem. It causes ghettoisation and increases perceptions that certain areas are 'rough' - which in turn is a self-fufilling prophecy.

The area I currently live in was featured in a series of Channel 4 reports as one the most 'deprived' areas in the country. Anyone living down the road in the 'desirable' area probably nodded their heads sagely and said 'yes that area is very rough.' Meanwhile those of us actually living there sat with our mouths open at how misrepresented the place was. It was absolutely ridiculous. One of the people interviewed was complaining about having to cash in 'one of his pensions.' How they didn't pick up on that I don't know - but the same guy owns his house outright and fixes vintage cars at the front of his house. He is rolling in it and yet he was presented as a poor pensioner struggling in penury. He just wanted attention and I can't blame him - if they're moronic enough to put him on tv, more power to him.

The British tendency to look down on areas and believe that drug dealers roam the streets strikes me as bordering on stupid tbh.

Do you think it is also possible that your positive experience of a 'pretty crap' school has coloured your views on things? I mean, surely it's very possible that there were other kids, even middle class ones, who had a bad experience in that school? It's worth considering as well that some people are really aspirational and highly value education. A school might achieve ok grades and have a decent Ofsted rating, but some families are aiming high. Maybe they want access to sport or arts or a rounded education that isn't just exam-focused. That's great isn't it?

I think most parents can tell the difference between a socially deprived school that does really well in spite of the circumstances and a socially deprived school that is just bad. Where I am the middle-class parents are falling over themselves to get their kids into the former.

Also there is nothing wrong with not wanting to be surrounded by anti-social behaviour and drug-taking. You might think it's fine but it's normal to think it isn't!

I will add that we greatly benefited from that stupidity, in that we own a four bedroom house mortgage free because house prices in this area are generally low.

ostensibly left wing etc but also seem to hold these reactionary views when it comes to their kids.

'Twas ever the case with the left, don't do as I do, do as I say!

As someone who went to a fairly crappy school and has done "well" for myself, I don't really recommend it.

The constant really really poor behaviour in almost all classes meant that the majority of most lessons was about behaviour management, handing out detentions, sending kids out, calling for senior support etc etc. It is such a horrible, depressing environment to be in. And what you learn as a bright kid is to keep your head down, don't draw attention, keep your mouth shut etc. Is that really what you want for your children?

Our DC go to our local comprehensive and it’s fine, we are lucky we live somewhere nice.
We recently went for dinner with friends and another guest proudly said that her DC wouldn’t come into contact with drugs due to their choice of private school. How I laughed. Some of these people are delusional. But not all. Unfair to say everyone is the same.

My parents moved areas (and schools) because of the pupils/catchment area, which was probably shrewd, as a not an insignificant number of one of my sibling’s peer group have had run-ins with the law.

Don’t underestimate the influence of the peer group on teens. Even if they manage to avoid negative influence it can make their schools years miserable and difficult for them to achieve their potential. It’s not about snobbery but having an environment that is conducive to learning.

Yes and those poors have such bad attitudes.

Tell me you’ve never taught in an underprivileged school without telling me you’ve never taught in an underprivileged school. The issues are huge, and monopolise a lot of time that should be used for teaching and learning. The parents are combative/unsupportive and see the school/teachers as the enemy. And if your child is academic and well-behaved, I can guarantee that they will be sat next to the worst offenders in the class, as they can be trusted not to get involved in the shenanigans. Would I send my bright children to a school to “neutralise” the behaviour of children who come from families who DGAF? Well…I didn’t. I sent my DCs to a grammar, where they’re surrounded by bright kids with parents who support the school and value education. Not sorry about that one bit. School is for learning, not mucking about.

Oh man, come out to where we are. I am very middle class and I can assure everyone ranting about the schools are definitely not middle class. It’s everyone complaining about how the school is too tough on kids because little Alfie brought a knife to school and now he’s excluded, which is ridiculous because he should be allowed to defend himself. And ranting about attendance policies because their little scruffs are at 80% attendance because they spend a good chunk of their time nicking bikes from the park next to school and vaping and now the parents are getting called in for a meeting. A lot of people around here don’t work and it seems to mean they have an awful lot of time on their hands for complaining. If I were to generalise. 🙄

I never mentioned that they were poor. You assumed that and that is your prejudice

Nope this is exactly and entirely and 100% what MC parents are avoiding when they avoid rough areas and you know it.

@Gwst You made me think of my dh. They moved back to the UK when dh started secondary school and were very state school oriented. Dh had previously attended an international school and was very academic.
Well, it all fell apart in year 7. He was a year in advance which didn't help things. Got bullied, kicked and didn't say a word to his parents. Finally made some friends in y 8 but he had stopped making an effort in school since being intelligent was what made him bullied. He never went to university and this is 100% because of what happened in secondary school. That's why we put our son who is academic in private school.

It's not a 'perceived bias' that if a child attends a school entrenched with social deprivation and issues, they are likely to have worse outcomes. It's true.

Sure, many will muddle through and do OK, but it's not an ideal environment. There are good and not-so-good schools - why would you not try to send your kid to a good one if you had the option? I'm not talking about private schools - I mean within the state system.