To find middle class parents insufferable?

[Gwst]

Sorry rant incoming! I'm so sick of how since becoming a parent half the people I speak to seem to be insufferable snobs about the area we live in (in a big city). Schools are "terrible" despite good ratings, couldn't possibly be good enough for their children, and are upset they don't live in a posher area, too many undesirables round where we live, complaining about drugs etc when this is an issue that 100% doesn't affect their demographic. I've recently had someone say they had to move to the suburbs because at their local school all the parents had "a can of coke in one hand, a fag in the other and 10 kids" and another saying a nursery wasn't good enough as they didn't want their child looked after by someone with a speech impediment. Both of these left me with my jaw on the floor shocked someone would think it's OK to say that but they seem to have no embarrassment about saying it to me, a casual acquaintance. And the area we live in is full of creative types, ostensibly left wing etc but also seem to hold these reactionary views when it comes to their kids.

The thing about schools drives me mad as I guarantee most of these people have zero experience of attending or their kids attending a challenging city comprehensive. It's just this perceived bias that their kids will get bullied or become drug dealers or other crap that they heard from their parents as to why they went to private school and are now parroting but can't afford private school or a posh area themselves. I went to a pretty crap school but I came out with good grades and went to a prestigious uni. It wasn't all great but it was a realistic cross section of society and arguably gives you good expectations of the real world and that fact that not everyone in your community is privileged etc. But no one seems to care about that and just wants to look out for themselves and everyone else be damned.

I am middle class myself lol. And my kid is going to have plenty of (unfair) social advantages anyway without us having to get them into "the best" school or only socialise with other middle class people. I just really don't get it. Am I alone in thinking like this??

My point is that the whole thing can start with a bad Ofsted rating or a bad hire and spiral from there, until there are issues with bullying violence etc. A situation in which teachers work their fingers to the bone but the school is still considered a 'shithole' is soul destroying.

Maybe, but I won't sacrifice my ds' education to fix the world's problems.

Better to ensure ds has a great education, studies engineering at a great university and is then able to earn a lot, pay higher rate of tax and contribute to society that way.

I was a studious child and succeeded in a high earning career. I'm absolutely certain that my 35 years of higher rate tax paid (£500,000ish), has done more good for education in general than me sitting beside a troublemaker in school, to help to moderate his behaviour.

So is that not the job of governers/MPs or whoever else to resolve? It’s not down to other parents or kids who behave. Especially ones who have never even attended that school and go straight to another one.

Of course I want my kid to go to a good school. I have no evidence my local school is not good. I am objecting to people saying "all" state schools in our area/ city are bad based on their own prejudice and them making horrible comments about working class people/ disabled people. This is what i find insufferable.

But no by all means interpret that as I love headlice, you do you

When did I say that? Why are you quoting my posts and lecturing me about what other people have said?

@Meadowfinch is right. Let’s say she did send her DS to a shitty comp with chair throwing kids and huge disruption. What is the more likely scenario?
a) he does exactly the same as he has done at his better school or
b) he doesn’t do as well because the school is worse and if so, what benefit is there to society?

Sadly a lot of it is about home life not school influence. It wouldn’t be the case that his decent upbringing would rub off on the other kids, but their disruption would affect him.

DD went a primary in a deprived area, vast majority of parents did not work. They were extremely snobby about middle class people and people with jobs. So it works both ways.

we were on holiday in Cornwall and DD was playing with another little girl. We were chatting to the parents all fine. We both have professional jobs, so did they. They then asked where we were from (NE town) they recoiled! They then made their excuses and left like they would catch something from us.

The comment about nursery and speech impediment is not a "horrible comment about disabled people". As nursery children are in the sensitive period of developing speech, it is essential for their caregivers with whom they spend hours every day to have clear articulation. That patent you found insufferable was displaying basic common sense and care about their DC's development.

And before you start on how horrible I am - I have a disabled DC with a speech impairment so I know what I'm talking about.

Your virtue signalling is just laughable.

Depends on your definition of good, if so many people are slating it then it can’t be that good.
Im not ashamed to admit I sent my kids to the best school in town.
Plus the people who walk around calling themselves working class have no issues banging on about how they hate middle class people but cry and moan about any microaggressions coming their way. Some of these people actually have more money than me and there’s been times where I’ve been completely broke and my kids were still clean and taught to behave.

@Meadowfinch is right. Let’s say she did send her DS to a shitty comp with chair throwing kids and huge disruption. What is the more likely scenario?
a) he does exactly the same as he has done at his better school or
b) he doesn’t do as well because the school is worse and if so, what benefit is there to society?

Sadly a lot of it is about home life not school influence. It wouldn’t be the case that his decent upbringing would rub off on the other kids, but their disruption would affect him.

The idea that your child's development is at such grave risk at coming into contact with someone who "doesn't enunciate correctly" is more than laughable.

Racist ? Who is racist ?

It's not WC v MC, more people who have the same family ethos. dd's bestie is working class, they chose to live in a Naice part of SW london in a flat instead of a house a couple of miles away, their kids go to "hard working kid" schools. Our family is more MC but we are still the same type of family -

🥱 Feel free to educate yourself https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-child-language/article/how-strong-is-the-relationship-between-caregiver-speech-and-language-development-a-metaanalysis/7D4F5197915114C0E2EF9E164FC71531

That what happened at DC secondary.

Poor inspection - they has issue with lowest pupils not improving exam results fast enough - gave them a year next time they said same HT left, several governors left - staff started leaving - pastural care was stripped out - they had real issure recruiting another head - had to re-open process twice - they struggled to find governors local councillor stepped in in end. Results tanked, behavior derterioated - lots of supply - senior experinces staff feeling pushed out and leaving.

A decade of hard work by staff turning the school round getting really high results even turning round some very tricky pupils and bam it was all so quickly lost.

It stablised in youngest last years but she was very unhappy there - but the exam results are still really dire still as is staff retention and behavior of pupils and general view from pupils and wider local population.

The bullying at my really good state compehsive best in area - was fucking dire there was an attitude there it wasn't happening and if it did it was your own fault. I was phsiclaly assulted in a lessons - it was pretty awful place but had a solid reputation so my parents insisted I stay on for sixth form - was miserable then as well. DH say his bad school had less bullying because older family members got involved and often shut it down and school didn't deny it was an issue.

Presumably this person's child isn't solely being bought up by this one member of their nursery's staff are they? 🙄and I can't imagine are you suggesting people with speech impediments or "bad enunciation" shouldn't be parents or work with kids. But hey maybe you are

Anyway cannot be bothered to spend anymore energy on this particular back and forth but this thread has been very illuminating though

Are people on this thread calling an accent a 'speech impediment'???

Certain posters seem to think the onus of failing schools should lie solely at MC parents feet. What about the feckless parents who don't give a shit about their childrens education?

I come from one of these families. My mother is vile. She doesn't care about education, she doesn't care about her children. She bullied me as a child for reading because apparently I thought i was better than her and needed taking down a few pegs.

Inequality isn't going to go away. You could never get a perfect balance of MC vs WC, SEN vs non SEN, deprived vs non deprived anyway. And even if you could people would still find a way for their children to get a leg up. Just by caring, reading to your kids, giving them a nice calm home, clean clothes and decent food you are providing them with an advantage.

I don't know what the solution is but in my opinion the change need to happen in the communities who don't value education. I had friends at school whos parents were immigrants, they were just as poor as us but they valued education.

I don’t disagree that it would be lovely if every state school lived up to certain standards. It would be wonderful if we could all just send our child to the local state school and be confident that they’ll get a decent education.

But that’s just not the case.

Just look at the countless threads here on MN about some of the pretty awful stuff that’s going on in schools now - exacerbated by the fact that many schools don’t have enough teachers to take the classes.

I was a school governor at a very rough primary school for 5+ years. It was a lovely school in many ways and as a primary, we didn’t have some of the problems that secondary schools have.

But we had an enormous pastoral dept and a very large chunk of time was spent on pupils whose families simply weren’t interested in school. The children I’m thinking of got zero support at home with reading or education. No help with learning their numbers or the times tables. No help with little projects the children might be doing at school.

The teachers spent a lot of time trying to get these children up to speed with the rest of the class. They were constantly lagging behind. Some weren’t particularly inclined to behave because their parents gave zero shits. We had to evacuate one classroom because a child lost their temper and started turning over tables. Another child was brandishing scissors and making threats (that was a big incident).

Certain parents just didn’t really care very much if their child was disruptive, aggressive, or rude.

I can think of two children in one year alone that left to go to a different school because they were academically able and their parents felt all the attention was being given to those at the bottom.

With classes of 30+ children and one TA (if you’re lucky), you can set stretched targets for children doing well. But where is your time and attention going to be spent? I can tell you now: it’s on the child who can’t keep up with the lesson or the one rolling around on the desks.

This was a primary school. I don’t blame parents for not wanting to subject their very young child to a disruptive environment where there’s potentially the threat of violence and where multiple families allow their children to behave however they choose. I don’t blame parents for wanting their child to go to a school that brings out their best.

Point of note: my two DC went to this rough school. We actually moved to it from another school. This very rough school was phenomenal with SEN and both my DC have very significant SEN (both ended up in special schools). So I know this school extremely well as a parent, and as the acting chair of governors.

At secondary level the stakes are even higher. Any child can make bad decisions - good kids get involved with county lines, taking drugs themselves, or joining gangs. It doesn’t matter if your kid is “good” - being in an environment where poor decisions are normalised means there’s a greater chance of them being sucked in.

I also used to do voluntary work in a homeless shelter. There was one woman whose story always stuck with me. She was in a terrible way. I talked to her and learned that she was my age. She’d had a child. Good job. Relationship with a bloke - long story short, he introduced her to drugs. She lost everything and ended up on the streets. Child in care. She looked like an 70 year old woman when I met her but she was in her 30s.

I always think it’s a case of there but for the grace of god go I. It only takes one bad decision for things to start to go very wrong. And heaven knows, teens make enough bad decisions as it is!! I want my kids to have the best possible chance in life - and I don’t want them exposed to violence, drugs, and other criminal activities if I can avoid it. I’m a lefty politically but it’s just naive to suggest that these problems aren’t more common at state schools in rougher areas.

Our education system is utterly broken. Sending your child to a rough school won’t change anything other than potentially their future - in a negative way. There needs to be wholesale changes from the top - slapping a tax on private schools is a sticking plaster on a gaping wound. But fixing our education system means spending public money - and there just isn’t any.

If it was the case that his decent upbringing would rub off on the other kids, would you do it then?

I know my answer. And I don't believe that facing sh..t in formative years improves child's life overall.

I find it astonishing and sad. One family is dedicated to giving their children a private school lifestyle whilst attending our good local state primary. This is 'to make up for the shortcomings of a state education'. It translates to private piano lessons, Spanish lessons etc every week night - ironically not with any private school kids but alone within the family unit. They don't support the school their kids go to by attending events like the fete or sponsored run etc. And the kids rarely attend birthday parties. The result being an insular family with no connection to the community they live in. Hope the kids think Oxbridge was worth it 😏

I was just about to say the problem schools of the 1990s aren't like when we were at school, they are Much MUCH worse.

That said, private school or a posh middle class school isn't always the best option either. In our area (Cheshire) drug use is much worse at the leafy sporty private than the state schools. Drugs cost money and private school kids have more access....

I don't think you can generalise. Each school needs to be assessed on its own merits and failings.

I don't know how you got the idea I'm a 'champaign socialist.' I live on a council estate and my children go to the local school, which is considered 'rough' by middle class nincompoops and which is in fact a great school.

Incidentally my views have nothing to with Marxism or any other political theory. It is just logical cause and effect that if you segregate people it causes social problems. It's not actually that complicated.

But that isn’t the case. It doesn’t happen. We all know this. So no.

Presumably you aren't in Edinburgh then....