To find middle class parents insufferable?

[Gwst]

Sorry rant incoming! I'm so sick of how since becoming a parent half the people I speak to seem to be insufferable snobs about the area we live in (in a big city). Schools are "terrible" despite good ratings, couldn't possibly be good enough for their children, and are upset they don't live in a posher area, too many undesirables round where we live, complaining about drugs etc when this is an issue that 100% doesn't affect their demographic. I've recently had someone say they had to move to the suburbs because at their local school all the parents had "a can of coke in one hand, a fag in the other and 10 kids" and another saying a nursery wasn't good enough as they didn't want their child looked after by someone with a speech impediment. Both of these left me with my jaw on the floor shocked someone would think it's OK to say that but they seem to have no embarrassment about saying it to me, a casual acquaintance. And the area we live in is full of creative types, ostensibly left wing etc but also seem to hold these reactionary views when it comes to their kids.

The thing about schools drives me mad as I guarantee most of these people have zero experience of attending or their kids attending a challenging city comprehensive. It's just this perceived bias that their kids will get bullied or become drug dealers or other crap that they heard from their parents as to why they went to private school and are now parroting but can't afford private school or a posh area themselves. I went to a pretty crap school but I came out with good grades and went to a prestigious uni. It wasn't all great but it was a realistic cross section of society and arguably gives you good expectations of the real world and that fact that not everyone in your community is privileged etc. But no one seems to care about that and just wants to look out for themselves and everyone else be damned.

I am middle class myself lol. And my kid is going to have plenty of (unfair) social advantages anyway without us having to get them into "the best" school or only socialise with other middle class people. I just really don't get it. Am I alone in thinking like this??

Oh and I really couldn’t care less which social class the state school kids were from, as long as they didn’t disrupt the class or physically attack my child I’m cool with it.

Inequality will always exist. Some people make a choice to invest in themselves and others don’t.

Example is that once had the same job as my friend. I chose to make moves to progress. My friend was offered a chance at a promotion but turned it down as she didn’t want to manage her friends.

Sorry…when did I call people “pond scum”? And when did I treat people like “pond scum”? If you had read my post properly, you will have seen that I went into poor performing schools to “make a difference,” but made no difference at all because the anti-education sentiment is too far gone. What actions have YOU taken to better the situation, and what teaching methodologies do YOU recommend, @Whyarepeople ?

It's a chicken and egg situation.

One school I taught in had a very high proportion of children with english as a second language. At the time (I'm not sure if it's the same now) Ofsted required all children to be at the same level after 2 years, even if they entered the school with zero english. Of course that's almost impossible to achieve so the school was rated inadequate and put into special measures, which resulted in certain parents looking at it, judging it, considering it to be not good enough etc. I was warned not work there by people in the local area who knowledgeably told me it was awful. The school, in fact, was beyond brilliant, I mean truly amazing, the best school I worked in by far. But the Ofsted rating haunted it so they struggled to get teachers, certain families avoided it and so on. After I left, the corrosive effect of the Ofsted rating really affected it and it went downhill - it became the terrible school everyone believed it to be.

The collective decisions of society shape the society. It's not up to individual people to 'sacrifice their children' or 'engage in social experiments.' It would be a very good start though for people to acknowledge the reality of what their decisions mean and to stop acting as though they have no effect on anything.

Sorry is that what you believe inequality is? Really?

I did exactly the same for private schools, too.
And I was definitely watching the behaviour.

I get what you are saying, bu a lot of us are talking about more serious examples and causes than an ofsted rating. We are talking about bullying and violence. It wouldn’t be tolerated in an adult workplace but fails to be dealt with in many schools.

People on this thread have called 'economically deprived' people pond scum. The point I was making is that if that's the general sentiment then it's not going to do much to improve things.

At the most baseline level, what I recommend is not falling prey to the idea that terrible, lazy poor people create awful situations with children who are rude and disruptive and that 'better' people must avoid them. I think that would be a good start.

They are just giving there opinion and trying to make their children’s lives as nice and happy as possible, don’t we all want the best we can provide for our children some things are more achievable depending on the resources we have and some things we need to reign in due to finances and circumstances. I don’t think they are wrong just not equal for everyone.

Well it’s one form of inequality isn’t it. Wealth accumulation/financial. There are different forms.

I can tell you it’s certainly how my friend feels. She has made certain decisions in life that have caused her to accumulate less weath and now constantly blames the government.

I absolutely acknowledge other forms of unfair inequality also.

But poor, lazy parents are more likely to produce violent and disruptive children. You must agree with that?

It’s not wrong to want to isolate your children from that. It’s good parenting.

No, this is a cycle that can be stopped if their children get the right support. All the evidence shows that it is poverty that keeps families in these cycles for generations, as much as you would like to believe that it is some kind of inherent inferiority. The children from these families are in fact much more in need of the “good” schools, and good role models if these cycles wreak havoc on to be broken. Writing children off and calling their parents names is just going to exacerbate the problem.,

For a champagne socialist, you seem to have very little knowledge of Marxist and neo-Marxist theories and the role of capital in urban deprivation.

I never said that that these kids were inferior, they’re just more likely to be violent and disruptive. Yes they need help but they’re not currently getting it and it’s not my job to give it, or tackle this. It’s not my kids job to help these kids either.

not sure why my comment was deleted?

Anyway good luck if you think you’ll make the world a better place by sending your child somewhere they may be beaten and threatened daily. And enjoy the evenings spent combing lice while your child cries (really not fun)

You’ve just reminded me of the teacher who admitted they sit the quiet kids next to the naughty out of control kids in an attempt to calm them down.
Literally used as collateral damage

Where did I say I was sending my child somewhere they are getting beaten and threatened each day?!!!

The level of projection and wild exaggeration from people on this thread is bonkers

Oh so you're not? Strange... I thought you said this: It wasn't all great but it was a realistic cross section of society and arguably gives you good expectations of the real world.

Getting beaten and threatened is real world but now you're not going to give your DC good expectations of it? 🤔

Where were you hypocritical?

My kids did go to what turned into a very bad school. Assults on pupils and teahcers weren't unknown but no-one was stabbed and while countlines was a school concern no obvious drug selling was going on according to pupils I know there.

However staff retention was dire post first head leaving- subject teachers indeed entire departments lacked permanat staff - low level disruption even in higher sets was every lesson - attendance levels were low and low expecations were shoveled at the kids and resulting in extremely low exam results and very poor career guidance.

The "dire" primary we got places at prior to secondary which looked good at that point - was actaully better then pervious good school. Smaller classes - less expatation parents like us would fill in gaps - much less busy homework - it was actaully better for them.

So I get why you skeptical about less good schools as it depends on what is meant what metric is being used to measure. However I think secondary there is a much bigger difference in state sector - just oppounties at different state school vary so much - but I'd look at staff rentetion figures, attendance levels and exams results and if they look good - I'd go round and get a feel for the place.

TBH using any cash to get into a great state catchment rather than pay for private is what a lot of better off parents do these days - they then also have an asset ie the house that tends to hold it's value rather than just paying school fees.

Not you, other posters.

But you did seem incredulous that I didn’t want my kid to go somewhere they’d catch lice constantly. Do you find it fun spending hours combing lice out of hair?
Anyway I didn’t say they were poor, just trashy. I was poor when I had my first kid literally in a homeless shelter and only 16 and my kids have always been clean. You can’t buy class

What you have written makes no sense

I don’t think they’re all insufferable but as I have moved up in the world I have found it harder and harder to make friends. I just have nothing in common with a lot of them. I like the occasional can of coke and fag, and I am still a bit rough, that’s just who I am. Most of the time I don’t care, I worked to be here so I’m going to be here, but sometimes it’s hard. My DD once hopped in the back of the car after schools and asked me what a chav was. I asked here where she had heard that and apparently a girl’s mummy said it and then the girl repeated it to DD. Kids lie and misinterpret things, but I’m pretty sure it’s true. I told her it’s a nasty word for working class people and to take no notice, but still it’s not nice. Be snooty all you want but don’t bring kids into it.

I have made some really good “posher” friends. The people I’ve met who I like, I really really like and enjoy spending time with. They don’t like all the things I like, but they’re open minded. I took one lady I met through work to my dad’s local pub for darts night and we had a blast. She told me she had never been to a flat roofed pub before so I absolutely had to do a bit of cultural exchange and show her the joys of the dive bar 😭.

Dear lord the projection. Because I think it's unfair to say that sending your kids to a local school means that they will catch lice off "trashy" kids means i love combing out lice? These arguments are just totally unserious and incoherent

Well yeah you must do, other wise you wouldn’t be berating people for trying to avoid that happening by sending their kids to better schools. The whole point of this thread is we’re apparently insufferable for wanting our kids to go to good schools and minimise shit like bullying, drugs and yes head lice.