I didn't miss DH at all whilst he was away

[Poppadop]

My DH has just got back from a 2-week trip. I've been at home with the 2 kids, 7 and 2. Honestly, we've had a great time at home. He got back at the weekend and I just didn't feel excited, more dreading how my new routine would change. He's been sending me messages whilst away saying how much he wants me and wanting to have sex etc, and I just don't. I've never really enjoyed messages like that anyway, not sure why, but it's not a turn on for me.

We've had sex since he's been back, I was hoping it might reignite a spark for me. It didn't.

He gets quite overwhelmed by too much noise and chaos, and as you can imagine with two young kids this happens a lot. Over breakfast this morning both kids were trying to talk to me at the same time and he just had a mini meltdown over it, like a sensory overload. It bothers me so much when this happens, because he doesn't remove himself he just melt down in front of us. Honestly it's not that chaotic, he just likes to control everything and gets stressed when he can't. Then we all have to witness it.

I'm quite relaxed generally but I think I've just become a pushover. Whilst he was away I did things the way I wanted, and there was no stress. No tears. No tantrums. It was so...calm.

We've been together 12 years. We have a house with a massive mortgage. We have an amazing holiday booked next year that is costing a lot. I just don't know how I'd navigate any of that if we split.

It could be that I just need to give it a few weeks, but I can't help but feel like I'm getting the ick. Particularly when he touches me and tries to have sex...that's not good is it?

Anyone ever felt anything similar?

Sounds so much like my childhood and my parents relationship.
My dad worked shift work - it definitely happened slowly over time but we very much became an “us” (my mum, sister and me) separate from him.
He was short tempered, snappy, moody - sadly we used to look forward to his late shifts and be relieved when he worked weekends as it was just such a happy/ chilled environment compared to walking on eggshells when he was around.

Have you actually sat down calmly with him and explained how his behaviour affects you and the children? There’s lots of suggestions for you to divorce but I don’t think anyone has actually suggested talking to him!! You could suggest some coping strategies for when he feels like ‘melting down’

I'm sorry OP. I really mean this nicely and I feel for you. But DH has absolutely "exhibited that behaviour in front of DS". He shouts and swears [you didn't mention swearing before - not good] when other people aren't behaving in the way he likes. And then you are all quiet ("everyone bends to him") so he gets his way. Without words, exactly what he's saying is "it's all of your fault I'm swearing and angry" and then you change your behaviour, showing that he was right, you were all making him angry. Your fault, he's the victim.

But your DS is 7. Of course he struggles to accept responsibility. He’s 7.

The big question for me is…what does your DH do when he gets stressed at work? Similar meltdowns?

OK, there is a lot to unpick here.

Just picking up on one aspect for the moment - the sex. Do you feel like you have lost your libido completely, or have you just gone off sex with him - do you still masturbate, for example, and do you believe you would like sex with someone else?

And if your libido is gone completely, are you on hormonal contraceptives? I ask because the pill completely destroyed my sex drive for years. And without the bonding and closeness that sex (at it's best) brings, romantic relationships can very easily drift, in my experience ....

OMG, cut this off at the head now OP.

You can make amazing changes but not with him as a role model.

Act. You must. He sounds utterly appalling.

he sounds a bit like my DH who has autism. Does your DH have any kind of diagnosis?

When my ex and I were going through a rough patch I suggested a temporary separation to see how we feel. I felt peaceful, not having to worry about his moods and tiptoeing around him. I made the separation permanent and never looked back.

if you did split you could still spend Xmas etc together as a family if you want to. Or you could talk about your feelings honestly and see if he would be open to some counselling or seeking help for his issues. If he refuses to try to change then you know it will never get better

Yes he does. He's made definitely not clueless. He read Getting The Love You Want (Harville Hendrix) and listened to a 9 hour audiobook on relationship skills as well as other podcasts and did counselling (12 sessions).

So he made a lot of changes as well. But he needed to see how to do it and also see me go first somehow. This may simply be the avoidant mindset. They are frozen into inaction.

His parents weren't good role models. For example his father never thanked his mother for anything.

Once he experienced the changes I made he actually quite quickly copied. He also became more relaxed over time as I paid more attention to triggers and he saw me as a safer and safer person.

It was a gradual process, but it often takes one person to take the lead (because one person is usually more anxiously attached and does so naturally) but in the end we are both different and value each other far more in my opinion. I would say we moved from an anxious-avoidant dynamic to a secure-secure/avoidant one in the space of 3-5 years.

It sounds like this is no way for him to live either - he must be on edge constantly as someone so affected by general day-to-day living (food smells, pets, bathing, etc), with cortisol levels through the roof.

It's baffling he actively chose to live with someone else and to have multiple children (it's no secret that they are relentless and impact the whole home!).

Not helpful now but it sounds like he might have been someone better suited to a quiet life living alone or with just a partner. The marriage ending may even improve his health in the long run, if he's able to set himself up with living arrangements better suited to his temperament.

OP, Julie Gottman (Gottman Relationship Institute) talks of how men tend to be hypervigilant and therefore hyper defensive to any form of attack which may be a hangover from our caveman days. The tribe survived because of male hypervigilance. Unfortunately this brain tends to see any kind of criticism as an attack as well and goes quickly back to a primal fighting brain.

If you click on the link below will see an article about The Lizard Brain which is only about Survival. Unfortunately we tend to default to this brain automatically and it floods the body with stress hormones and switches off rational thinking (temporarily) and men tend to "fight" or flight (leave) where as women tend to "submit/freeze" (go quiet).

These automatic reactions can be toned massively down with training but this usually needs a concerted effort, starting with an awareness of what is actually happening (and what triggers it) and then using soothing behaviours to help yourself as well as to help your child or partner. Each person has different behaviours which will soothe them (some will want peace and quiet, some a hug etc).

Safety and The Lizard

@Newstart26 I agree that it’s baffling that he chose to have children if he’s unable to parent them well. Even if the marriage ends, they’ll presumably spend time with him and how will he treat them? Or he’ll be unable to cope with them and they won’t see him.
Poor kids.

Plenty of people misunderestimate the stress that goes with children. What I think it goes back to is that not all brains are adapted to how we live now. Our ancestors didn't live like this. They lived in small groups and childcare was shared across multiple adults. The stress on each individual was lower. We were not trapped with small children nearly alone with no support. Men in particular had a lesser role in childcare and women had the support of multiple other women to share the burden.

I think this article explains it well:
Being a mother in the west would be a dream, I thought. But compared with Uganda, it was a nightmare

Evolution of human brains takes thousand of generations. Maybe some people are more adaptable than others. But comparing someone who is clearly suffering to the most adaptable and energetic amongst humans doesn't real help, in my view, anyway. What they need is rest, and tools to cope. Divorce is not necessarily the best answer. Sometimes it is and sometimes it really isn't.

Much has already been said on here which I agree with. I’ve been in your shoes. I had a father … the trauma stays and I’m still (in my mid fifties) unpacking things in my mind. He has been dead for twenty years. You’ve hit the nail on the head with this post, he’s a role model for your sons. Whatever you choose to do, this needs to be addressed now with your DH because he needs to know the effect it has on you and your children. My father didn’t give a crap about other people or how his behaviour affected them. If your dh is like that, there’s no choice but to leave.

Couples counselling seems the obvious route.

I think you need to start with an honest and fairly blunt conversation. That he is having regular meltdowns about standard kid behaviour in front of the kids, and you're all modifying your behaviour as a result of his meltdowns and its not OK. That you consider their behaviour normal, and acceptable, and you no longer want to have to give them unrealistic standards to behave to, or put up with his meltdowns in front of them. You appreciate he struggles but that should be his responsibility to manage and he is actually transferring that responsibility to the children. This is going to get worse as the children get older and more wilful eg make their own food and leave a mess, play music loudly etc. so needs to be sorted. He needs to stop with these reactions in front of the family, atop blaming other people for his behaviour, and ideally find a way of managing his 'stress' or it will be the best thing for the family to split.

Its tricky as he is clearly neurodivergent but doesn't seem to want to accept that his need for quiet, routine, his sensory overload at normal family stuff like smells is due to this. If he accepted it he could get a diagnosis and maybe some help in understanding himself

I agree with this - when I look at my first marriage , ( kids in early and mid 80s) lived local to where I was brought up, interested grandparents on hand , babysitter on tap, most people in similar position money wise, friends who would have yours over for the morning in return for favour and most women working part time if at all , it wasa very different scenario to my second marriage where I had none of this and the load was spread much more in my first marriage . If I knew now I would have a different viewpoint on having kids when it’s all going to come down to you and your partner, all the pressure is then fully on the relationship working well to make bringing up any children less stressful

Yes years ago but I didn't have any children with him and he hadn't actually done anything annoying like have meltdowns. He used to work away for so many days at a time out of the week and I realised when he was away I didn't miss him. When he was away he always seemed to phone me at inconvenient time. Then when he came back having to take into account someone else's wants and needs just made me realise it wasn't what I wanted anymore.

I grew up in a village in the 60s and 70s and I was never at home once I was about five, I was farmed out, along with my sister, to various other villagers and their kids came to ours in turn. Mostly we were all being feral in the landscape unless it was bitter cold.

Mum never once 'played' with us until we played cards from about the age of nine or ten. We were left to our own devices totally.

Modern life stinks by comparison. I had a great time but everyone suffers as a result of how we live in this modern Britain.

Right! If you click on the article it says the same thing!

Nothing prepared me for the reality of mothering without the extended family to help take care of you, and the nonchalance with which the western world treats mothers.

I personally don't think most men are really adapted to this nuclear family way of life. They want to go out of the house and have this single minded focus on earning money. They don't (on the whole! Of course some do) have the patience, flexibility and adaptability needed for small children.

In the case of the OP: there must be something that you appreciated about your H when you were dating him. He must have had some great qualities. He probably STILL has those same qualities. They may well be to do with working hard and bringing home a stable secure wage. Holding down a job over years.

The qualities you want him to have now, he probably did not quite have at the time. You probably didn't see or did and hoped he would change.

Some of those qualities CAN be developed, even now, but it is important to be realistic in how much a person can change. He can slowly with help transform himself into a person who is a bit calmer in noisy places but he'll probably never thrive in them.

With the help of a counsellor can you tease out the areas where you can both change and start to meet more in the middle. Start showing some willingness in any areas he might have asked YOU to change and do these first. Get the ball rolling and build some goodwill

Meanwhile appreciate the areas he IS actually good at. Does he willingly share his money he's worked for with you and seem to want you to be happy? Can you show gratitude for the things he actually DOES?

And if there is nothing at all then it's an easy decision to leave.

It's so sad that you think men are only good for earning money.

Can you try couples therapy OP?

Run this forward 10 years and your 7yo will be running rings around your DH.

They will know exactly what buttons to press and tbh, if you grow up with a drama queen adult, you can delight in pressing them as a surly teenager.

Or be affected badly like other posters...

I would lose the DH and gain a dog, if I was you.