To think being angry works

[sallover]

I have two kids (2 and 5.) I’ve read the books and what you’re supposed to do to deal with poor behaviour or habits and I was doing it.

And it wasn’t effective in the slightest.

So for instance my five year old pees all over the place when he goes to the toilet. For well over a year now I’ve been consistent and made him go back and clean it. It’s been hugely disruptive because he often argues and refuses so then deal with that but calmly made him clean it.

And then I lost it with him at the start of the holiday. I properly yelled at him for quite a while and made him cry; told him it was disgusting, dirty and unpleasant for others. And he hasnt done it since.

We had it again this morning where he was getting frustrated with a toy. At first I sympathised and helped but he just kept roaring and screaming. So I told him he could either stop and play calmly or I’d remove it because it was unpleasant for everyone else to listen to screaming.

No doubt someone will ask why I posted on AIBU because I don’t think I’m being unreasonable and it isn’t quite as simple as that. I don’t want to be a horrible shouty mum they are scared of. Equally though I don’t want them running rings round me and it did feel like they were tbh. (The stern / firm voice never worked either before anyone suggests that.)

It must be hard for parents with very different types of children to relate to one another though. Of my five I had one very biddable and keen to please child, two moderate ones who would listen when they were in the mood and two near-feral kids who, if not parented strictly would do as they damn well pleased.

So yes, if you have one or two children that listen to you, that like to please and are generally well meaning towards you, I can see that a stern look or leading by demonstration would work perfectly well. But if you have very self-willed children (particularly if you have more than one!) you can't always be calmly demonstrating best practice because in the time it's taken you to tidy up their last toy-throwing (and no, they won't 'help you tidy' because it's far easier to watch Mum do it), they've trashed another room or thrown the cat's biscuits around the kitchen.

There really are some children that need a tough line. It might be difficult to imagine if yours aren't like this, and that's why some parents think gentle parenting is a miracle - because, for their children, it is.

In which order @Vroomfondleswaistcoat
Could this not be the effect of having 5 ?

I had 3 and parented them all similarly
I just would not let them run off and muggins just pick up their toys

One of my best skills is extreme patience determination and stubbornessand they would get bored of me very fast and just do it , because Im not going anywhere until they do.
Possibly this was because the consequence of not doing it would be that dinner was delayed until they did 😉 and mine all loved their food
Consequences over punishment is really what Gentle parenting is about, its a bit odd the term is still used really as I dont know anyone who punishes their children harshly

However I am a pick your battles person and a bit of wee and willy waving is just a phase hopefully and I would install a splashmat and give the loo an extra wipe

First and third were feral, second and fourth were less so and the fifth was reasonable and the only one that would have been suitable for being 'gently parented', and that was probably due to seeing the effect that her brothers and sisters had on her home and me.

So I don't think it was due to the numbers (there's only seven years between first and last too), and now they are grown up their personalities are still very much the same - although second (my eldest DD) is now diagnosed AuDHD.

Being a single mum and not having any family support meant that I had limited time and patience, and they could ALL outlast me with stubborn determination not to help, and the most common refrain was 'I didn't make that mess, it was XXX! So I don't have to clear it up!' with all of them blaming each other. Which is understandable, because I wouldn't want to watch someone else tip a load of crap all over the floor and then be liable for clearing it up.

They have all turned out to be civilised, pleasant people and - this is slightly galling - very houseproud!

I think that you hit the nail in the head when you've said you've found your "I mean it . . . " tone of voice. IME this is what kids respond to. Some people can communicate 'I mean it . . . ' in a quiet but firm tone of voice. I couldn't. Like you I had to find an alternative way of emphasising. Sometimes it was by being loud, other times it was a more severe, or a quicker consequence, but it got the message there - eventually. Works the same as a teacher too. You have to communicate very clear expectations. Really gifted teachers have the knack of making it sound as if they really mean it, all the time. My friend could absolutely wither anyone with a raised eyebrow and a question. Never worked for me. We all have to find our own way of communicating.

Absolutely this!!!!
You have hit the nail on the head
Mine knew I meant what I said right from the start
Clear and firm , haha my " look" is a superpower !
I deal with very tricky situations in my working life so perhaps it comes from that natural authority
My mantra has always been
" say what you mean and mean what you say"

@Vroomfondleswaistcoat sounds like you had an awful lot on your plate !

@BlueberrySummerCloud - I did. All grown up now, we survived!

You are teaching them a very important life lesson, don't piss people off

I weekly go batshit insane on my 3 children. They are alive and thriving. They are so very polite in public, respectful, and thoughtful that I regularly am complemented on their behaviour and mannerisms.

You will not be the first or last parent to school their kids on behaviour.

I am firm, level headed, and I do get quite cross. I am managing 3 teenagers.

This gentle parenting BS, is a fad just like Mrs Hinch, is a fad. These fads will suck you dry and they do not work. It's akin to ramming a square peg into a round hole. These kids need telling and put in the right place. Otherwise, we are all going to fail these kids later on in life when they are unable to be comfortable in uncomfortable situations. They'll all just quit their jobs and live off of benefits.

So I told him he could either stop and play calmly or I’d remove it because it was unpleasant for everyone else to listen to screaming.
This is surely the ideal way to deal with it? You presumably didn't scream it into his face, just told him what the consequences of his continued behaviour would be, in a slightly stressed tone.
And reaching the end of one's tether and shouting is also normal and usually fixes the problem. However, shouting shouldn't be the first resort - I grew up with that and it's awful.

I teach kids every day. This is it, 100%
It’s not about yelling at them day in day out (because eventually they will stop listening altogether) it’s about making yourself heard! Keep going OP, sounds like you’re doing your best, but having been a single parent for the majority of my daughter’s young life, occasionally, you have to be the boss.

You have shamed and scared your child so much they cried. Great parenting. 🙄

I'm not sure what the answer is either - but recently my four year old shoved my baby over and they hit their head quite badly.

After lots of gentle parenting before, I lost it at my four year old. Shouted that it was unacceptable for them to shove their baby sibling over for no reason, that they were naughty etc.

They haven't hurt or hit the baby since. All the "gentle hands" nonsense did nothing and they continued to hurt the baby.

I don't want to shout at my four year old, and I didn't plan to, but it has worked.

Gentle parenting is for gentle kids. Xx

That’s exactly what it was for my two - who are now 25 and 18 and don’t hate or fear me …

A bit of a shout got the job done. Both of mine needed to be pulled up quickly at times. It is a useful part if the parenting equipment - used occasionally, when necessary. If your DC are very biddable or sensitive it probably is not necessary. but if they’re lads who think they can ignore you if is very necessary at times.

Don’t be ridiculous. He has learned not to pee all over the toilet. He has learned not to ignore his parent. He has not been traumatised.

Attitudes like this are leading to selfish, lazy, entitled behaviour.

Exactly. Gentle parenting is total nonsense for most kids. It only works for those who are generally quiet and well behaved. I am so glad it was not a thing when mine were small. Not one parent I knew had a problem delivering a very firm telling off and occasionally shouting. Guess what - none of our DC are entitled monsters.

How do you think it feels to a small child to have a much larger person standing over them shouting and yelling?

Makes them feel shit. Then they remember it and behave next time.

Better one well-timed bollocking than a daily wearisome battle.

The one girl I know who was parented with a mother who never raised her voice turned into an entitled, self obsessed, pain in the arse.

I think you and others are confusing Gentle Parenting yes wanky term with Permissive Parenting .
I dont go around advocating GP but essentially its firm but fair parenting with consequences not Authoritarian based harsh discipline/ corporal punishment or shaming .
Permissive parenting is as harmful as Authoritarian and has the consequences you describe.

• Disclaimer In extreme circumstsnces I would shout eg DC running in the road etc Im not Mary Poppins

Gentle parenting does not work. My nephew (7) is a pita sometimes and won’t stop unless you shout at him. Made my mum cry last week in her house when I was there and I had to firmly tell him to apologise and give her a hug which he did.

We had smacking too which I do not advocate but sometimes shouting was the only thing that got through to us.

I never said it he was traumatised. 🙄

But there is a difference between stopping behaviour and having them understand it. It’s worked short term but fear compliance is not something I think parents should aim for. He doesn’t want that feeling again. It’s fear based.

I am not perfect, I’ve raised my voice before. But I also apologised.

My attitude is not going to cause laziness. It simply won’t cause long term issues because I don’t use fear to get things done.

See I do hear that a lot and agree. Gentle parenting is not permissive parenting. Problem is if push comes to shove it’s difficult managing some situations. It should work, it should be effective. If you keep pushing your brother and taking his toys you can’t play with your brother. So I remove you and you claw my face as you scream the place down and I have to sit in front of your door to stop you getting past because you’re hitting and shoving me and meanwhile my five year old is alone but hey I’ve held the boundary, right?

It takes nearly half an hour to calm down and then within five minutes it happens again.

You just can’t, you can’t live a normal life doing the gentle parenting thing unless you have one child or exceptionally calm kids.

Sometimes we lose it after being patient and asking what feels like a thousand times.
I've been asking my kids to tidy toys from the landing. It's dangerous, messy ect and needs to be cleared up. They have ignored me and ignored me, consequences haven't worked.
Earlier I tripped and really hurt my hand and just lost my sh!t at them. Landing was cleared up instantly.

Kids in general seem to have a big lack of respect for others these days despite how hard parents can try to bring them up well.

Not what I’d advocate but DB when younger used to tease and annoy me mercilessly and would not stop, was a real pain. Once when he was 9 or so my mum was out so I told my stepdad who got really angry and smacked him really hard for about 10 minutes. Our friends who were over were shocked and crept out. I was staring shocked. He never teased or annoyed me again though. Never.