To think being angry works

[sallover]

I have two kids (2 and 5.) I’ve read the books and what you’re supposed to do to deal with poor behaviour or habits and I was doing it.

And it wasn’t effective in the slightest.

So for instance my five year old pees all over the place when he goes to the toilet. For well over a year now I’ve been consistent and made him go back and clean it. It’s been hugely disruptive because he often argues and refuses so then deal with that but calmly made him clean it.

And then I lost it with him at the start of the holiday. I properly yelled at him for quite a while and made him cry; told him it was disgusting, dirty and unpleasant for others. And he hasnt done it since.

We had it again this morning where he was getting frustrated with a toy. At first I sympathised and helped but he just kept roaring and screaming. So I told him he could either stop and play calmly or I’d remove it because it was unpleasant for everyone else to listen to screaming.

No doubt someone will ask why I posted on AIBU because I don’t think I’m being unreasonable and it isn’t quite as simple as that. I don’t want to be a horrible shouty mum they are scared of. Equally though I don’t want them running rings round me and it did feel like they were tbh. (The stern / firm voice never worked either before anyone suggests that.)

Peeing on the floor is antisocial, disgusting and unpleasant for others. There are plenty of threads on here about partners or co-workers who haven’t learned this and can’t be arsed to aim properly.

Your son has to learn this at some point. If he was too little to be able to aim reliably I would say you were BU, either to make him clear it up or to shout at him. But if he’s stopped since he was shouted at he clearly can do it if he wants to, and the previous sanction of clearing up wasn’t getting the message across that not peeing all over the floor is not optional.

There’s a whole load of stuff that goes into being a tolerable adult to be around that kids don’t instinctively do or want to do when told because it is too much like hard work: eg chewing with their mouths closed, washing their hands after going to the loo, taking their turn with toys and a million other things. They have to learn this somehow. It’s not always easy to get them to learn by being endlessly patient because they fundamentally don’t want to do all these things because it’s an effort, so there has to be a worse downside to not doing it. Sometimes the only downside that works is “if I don’t do this mummy will shout”.

Well, we’re not doing that. I do think physical chastisement crosses a line; it’s bad for the child’s dignity.

But I am feeling fairly relaxed in my new approach. That helpless feeling has gone.

I totally agree op. I was quite a shouty mum but would give warnings that I would ‘get cross’ if they didn’t comply. Up to my boundaries I was quite a liberal parent, but talking to my adult dd the other day she said ‘you’d only have to give us ‘the look’ mum and we’d know…’

All of my dc are happy high flyers so I think the odd bit of anger within an otherwise healthy and loving family is perfectly fine. I think that’s far more normal and in keeping with human and mammalian behaviour than this silly permissive ‘gentle’ parenting where children are basically allowed to be dominant and feral by lazy, useless parents.

I think you could have just persisted with the calm approach and eventually it wouldn't even have been a thing anymore. My 5yo protested about hand washing every single trip to the toilet and behaved like you describe, every time I just calmly explained why it was important and firmly insisted he stayed in the bathroom until he'd done it. Sometimes he'd resist and complain for up to half an hour. Now six months later he doesn't resist at all anymore and just does it without question, even goes back to do it of his own accord if he forgets.

It’s not unreasonable. They need to learn that if they’re unreasonable and disrespectful someone will tell them and you won’t be able to protect them from that as they get older.

It works to a certain extent, but if a child is compliant based on fear rather than respect for their parents it can go very wrong when they're teenagers. They realise their parents cant actually hurt them and have no respect for authority so do what they want and have a lot of anger that has been repressed. Now and again is fine but I would avoid getting into the habit of doing this frequently.

Clearly missing something here- but how does looking at a ping pong ball stop a kid peeing everywhere? Wouldn't he be better focusing on where he's aiming ?!

It might work for you OP but not at all for me. Being angry with DD really crushes her and often drives worse behaviour/ anxious habits. Gentle discussion is what really works with her and at 9 her behaviour is astoundingly good. We are close too and our house is calm and peaceful. I think your handling of your child just depends on your child to be honest.

So how long should I have kept it going? Another year, two years? Genuinely asking. It was awful to be honest but all the books said calm and consistent but nada.

And it wasn’t just the pee anyway. I had to face the fact that what I’d been told was the right approach just wasn’t working.

Possibly @roilito but it also sounds from your reply like you have one nine year old girl which is a universe apart from a five year old and two year old.

Yes @sallover but she was once a 5 year old and before that a 2 year old and I’m just saying that what works for her is reasoning (yes even as a toddler). Patient explaining and nudge was much more powerful than blowing my top (I did do this occasionally and it just made her anxious and it didn’t stop her doing the thing I didn’t want her to do).

It’s still a very different dynamic managing one to two, was the point.

This, I admit, is a very fair point.

There's nothing wrong with having healthy level of shame, its an essential emotion and much better than raising a shameless individual.
He needed to be told, he has been, and it has worked.

Standing ovation. Many kids I know who are gentle parented absolutely do my fucking head in because they’re poorly behaved, demand far too much adult attention and have very little independence.

Like chilli, you have to use it very sparingly.
Because it is 'working', you will be tempted to use shouting and anger more often, but the more you do it, the less effective it gets.
It is a downward spiral.
You need the self control to only properly shout and show your anger at the most once every couple of months, perhaps less. Then it retains its effectiveness.

Meanwhile, you have to stick to the other methods: reasoning for older children, and for younger children: warnings before transitions, routine, distraction, offering choices, etc.

I absolutely will keep using it - it works!

This doesnt make,sense
You are yelling and shouting at ypur child because you are unhappy but then hes not allowed to yell/ shout when hes unhappy
Very mixed messages imho

Peeing on the seat, straight back to clean it up
Every time, quiet calm, take him and hand him the cloth
No delays, march him there
Yelling/ screaming-toy removed

So this is kind of what I’m trying to say. On the face of it, absolutely. I don’t want my children to yell and scream and I get them to stop yelling and screaming by - yelling and screaming.

It shouldn’t makes sense and it should result in them yelling and screaming more - but I just don’t think logic applies with many children.

And without wishing to sound rude, did you read my OP at all? Because

Peeing on the seat, straight back to clean it up
Every time, quiet calm, take him and hand him the cloth
No delays, march him there

is what I did for nearly two years. Even if it made me late; even if it inconvenienced everybody. Firm, calm consistency right?

And he still pissed all over the seat every time 🤷‍♀️

One yelling episode from me and it’s stopped.

Did you actually talk to him, tell him not to do it or show him how to put the seat up?

Nothing on this earth would have me shouting at my DC
My father was a shouter and it made me despiae him
Food for thought

I have stood with him when he’s urinating and seen him waving his willy around madly.

You say nothing on this earth would have you shouting at your children which is fine - we all parent differently.

But I was pretty miserable, frustrated and ground down with some behaviours that just were not changing, even though I was doing the ‘right’ things. That’s not a good place to be in.

I think it loses effect the more you do it. If usually lovely mum loses her shit once in a while you know you’ve crossed a line and want lovely mum back.

If mum is always angry and shouts all the time, they get used to it and think oh well, might as well do what I want.

I hope I’m not going to be like that but getting angry occasionally definitely helps me to be lovely mum 98% of the time.

I do know what people are saying - it can be too easy to fall back on, and you don’t want to overuse it. I do think it has its place though and that’s something parenting books never say!

Oh bless him , sounds like a typical small boy 😂
I would just have wipes by the loo and just wipe before using as I do at work

Not worth shouting about imho

Shouting is violent communication
It indicates loss of control
Do you really want to teach this to your DC?
Also they become numb to it and then one day you have a 15 year old screaming in your face back
Is anyone supporting you at all ?

I could have done that, absolutely. But the pee thing was illustrative. There are times I need ds - both kids really - to listen and to do as they are told. And truthfully, they weren’t. Something had to change.