To think being angry works

[sallover]

I have two kids (2 and 5.) I’ve read the books and what you’re supposed to do to deal with poor behaviour or habits and I was doing it.

And it wasn’t effective in the slightest.

So for instance my five year old pees all over the place when he goes to the toilet. For well over a year now I’ve been consistent and made him go back and clean it. It’s been hugely disruptive because he often argues and refuses so then deal with that but calmly made him clean it.

And then I lost it with him at the start of the holiday. I properly yelled at him for quite a while and made him cry; told him it was disgusting, dirty and unpleasant for others. And he hasnt done it since.

We had it again this morning where he was getting frustrated with a toy. At first I sympathised and helped but he just kept roaring and screaming. So I told him he could either stop and play calmly or I’d remove it because it was unpleasant for everyone else to listen to screaming.

No doubt someone will ask why I posted on AIBU because I don’t think I’m being unreasonable and it isn’t quite as simple as that. I don’t want to be a horrible shouty mum they are scared of. Equally though I don’t want them running rings round me and it did feel like they were tbh. (The stern / firm voice never worked either before anyone suggests that.)

Well, sometimes I would have to have a sharp “what do you think you are doing” approach rather than “we don’t do that in this house, darling” approach.

I like that it’s being sharp has been effective with your son. Boys do respond to straight talking. If you are looking for books, Maggie Dent, Steve Biddulph and the sadly late Celia Lashlie would be worth a read. DH had to read Steve Biddulph’s book on raising girls to have better success at communication.

I am significantly firmer with my children than many of my friends are. I don’t shout (often) but I do have different tones of voice and they know when something is unacceptable. 11yo is pushing the boundaries of rudeness at the moment and I have no qualms about telling her off, refusing to engage with rudeness. Better coming from me than school or future employer etc.

Im never sure about the idea that fear is terrible either. Aren’t we all motivated by fear at some level? I don’t walk in the road because I’m scared of getting knocked over. I don’t tell my boss he’s a dick because I don’t want to lose my job. Etc etc.

One aspect of anger is that it points to boundary violations. The first port of call dealing with boundary violations show be calm clear consistent communication but ultimately if that does not work then it is that Einstein quote of “doing the same thing expecting different results” so then you need to use other methods until one works.

Shouting would have induced fear in the early stages, but that period happened before you can remember. What you're remembering is an older child who was already used to being shouted at, and who had a trained response as a result of growing up in a shouty household.
But baseline stress most likely high, that's the scientific findings from study after study.

you can take an analogy too far though. Not everything about the way you interact with children is directly applicable to the way adult relationships work, and vice versa.

In real life, if a grown adult constantly kept pissing on the floor despite being asked not to, he would potentially face disciplinary or even lose his job in work, and, yes, probably be shouted at by a partner, and maybe even have his romantic relationship end because of it. How are you supposed to do the equivalent to a 5 year old? Telling him he has to move out of his house because mummy can't live with him any longer would probably be more traumatic!

I'm not saying that OP was completely right, but a) there are some circumstances where adults do occasionally get angry at each other, rightly or wrongly, it's idealistic to pretend otherwise and b) children aren't adults. They don't have the same understanding or potential consequences.

Whether it’s abuse or not it worked.

I don’t think it was abuse, by the way. Ds is showing no signs of fear or anxiety around me, he is happy, outgoing and energetic as ever. But I have changed my mind on how to approach some stuff. I will use anger / shouting when I need to because as much as it may challenge a narrative it works, it is effective and sometimes I really need it to work and be effective.

I understand the point of pp saying 'you wouldn't like it if your partner yelled at you,' well no, I wouldn't. If my partner yelled at me out of the blue for absolutely nothing. But then again, if I was persistantly blanking him, rolling my eyes when asked to do something that benefitted not only him but me; if I gave him a mouthful of abuse when asked to do something normal, if I ruined his belongings through not caring enough about them - and he'd tried to speak to me repeatedly about it only to be met with me running off giggling - I think I might actually deserve to be yelled at.

Anger used occasionally and when it really matters is good. As a regular tool, it is will lose its impact.

If it's unusual for you to yell it will work, he will know you are really upset. If it becomes the usual reaction it won't work any more, and it wasn't a deliberate decision you were just pushed to the limit, we are none of us saints.

I think some kids need to be told very clearly what is and isn't acceptable. It's not great to shout at them constantly but sometimes it is needed to get the point across and sometimes you're only human.

It is effective because it is unusual and a bit scary. It shows you mean business. If you shouted regularly it would become just as ineffective as the other methods.

I have 3 kids and their responses really differ. One knows when I'm pissed off and hates to see me upset so immediately does what's needed. Like all kids she still takes the piss and tests boundaries but knows when the game is up. Second kid will draw it out a bit and ignore requests but would be extremely upset at being shouted at. There is a cross firm tone that eventually works usually coupled with a threat. Last kid, now mid teens doesn't respond to anything but anger and its bloody exhausting. I don't like to shout but he drives me to it sometimes. It's still not effective as he laughs in my face. His dad yells at him all the time and he yells back and it causes a lot of distress to me and the other kids so I try to avoid it. The only thing that works is nasty threats sent by text. Like 'I see you didn't do the job I asked you to do 4 times. After 2pm today I'm will be removing all tech and you will have to walk to training'. I don't acknowledge that I sent the msg and neither does he, he just silently does the job and it's never spoken of again. Ridiculous but the only way to handle him, requests fall on deaf ears.

My DS used to smear poo all over the bathroom walls / towels, sink ect. This went on from him being a toddler to being around 5. Prior to the bathroom it used to be his bedroom.

One day I just absolutely had enough and really went mad. I was sick of it, it wasn't just the cleaning the poo it was the coming sitting next to me or touching me and he's got poo in his fingernails 🤢

I went mad that one time and he has never ever done it since.

I’m not sure it would become ineffective. The sort of shouting when your voice is just louder than normal, maybe, but that real anger being conveyed does tend to shock and silence.

I think one of the problems is we tend to focus on logic - logically, we want our children to be respectful; it isn’t respectful to shout, we want our children to speak to us respectfully so we need to model this to them. It sounds totally logical, but it just doesn’t work, for my children anyway. The calmer I am the more worked up they get, then I get angry and it sort of shocks them out of it.

Its not ideal but the odd roar is effective. Constantly gently correcting, explaining and reminding becomes just a mild buzzing in their ears.

I think the problem with your approach (and which i fall into as well to my shame) is that the scale is off the charts I.e. you were too nice for too long and then exploded. What you (we) need to do is be firmer on a regular basis. Raise your voice once in a while, instill consequences etc.

Doesn’t work @VioletsAreBlue33934 . I mean yes to a point it does eg where ds would refuse to clean the pee up - you ask nicely then get firmer and eventually he complies but it doesn’t stop the arguing, the bad grace, the mulishness and attitude. And most key it doesn’t actually stop the pissing all over the seat!

It’s not my immediate ‘go to’ reaction but absolutely sometimes they need to be bloody told with a raised and very stern voice. If they cry, oh well, it’s worked then!

I don't think there is anything wrong with raising your voice, telling them you are annoyed and to stop it when they have pushed their luck. What is wrong is when parents are always yelling and swearing for the slightest thing, then the kids don't know if they are coming or going.

I don’t swear but I have gone into a few full on shouts at them of late.

It could be a coincidence but behaviour generally has improved. There’s a sort of ‘I mean it’ aspect to things now.

I don’t think the OP shamed her son about deliberately peeing all over the place, she didn’t tell him off in front of anyone or go round telling everyone what he did.

I think it is wrong to never show your children’s behaviour makes you angry. How will they ever cope in the real world when people do get angry at their selfish behaviour, and they aren’t always kind or calm, fair and consistent.

Exactly this! People tend to use the argument ‘you wouldn’t yell at a colleague’ but a colleague would be fired if they didn’t do what was asked, regularly ignored instructions and did the opposite of what they were supposed to do every second of the day!

No one tests you like a child, and I similarly have read the books, done the gentle approach (offering choices, natural consequences like cleaning up mess etc) but they just don’t care.

For example, my toddler was refusing to brush her teeth, we tried playing teeth brushing song, turning it into a game, letting her do them and me finishing them, but every night was a battle and flat out refusal.

Eventually I yelled at her and she brushed them nicely. I felt awful but as the OP said, it does work.

Yes … I am wondering how many years of my life I wasted to a gentle approach when a quick yell would have achieved my aim!

In the olden days a slap across the legs would have done it.

Depends really, if he's generally a resilient kid then you losing your temper now and again is quite healthy imo, it shows a range of emotional responses and that it's OK to be angry sometimes, if however he's a sensitive soul and gets really upset and it's your default response all the time then no.

This 💯!