Parental estrangement. What do you secretly think?

[Orphlids]

I’m interested in outsiders’ views on estrangements between parents and their adult children. If you’ve met, or were to meet someone, and then discovered they were estranged from both their adult children, what would your initial thoughts be, assuming you knew nothing more about how the estrangement came to happen?

UABU - you wouldn’t think negatively about the parent. You’d be prepared accept the adult children were perhaps unpleasant, or difficult people. You’d feel sorry for the parent.

UANBU - you’d suspect the parent’s poor behaviour was more likely to have caused the estrangements, and you might view that person with suspicion.

Which is closer to your view? I’d be interested in any thoughts, if you’d like to comment in further detail.

I was neglected and abused as a child (an only child). I was constantly being told how spoiled and lucky I was and probably believed it, but I didn't realise how neglected and abused I was until I was in my late 20s and saw more clearly the relationship most people have with their parents. Although I was one of the lucky ones who had a wide extended family, who I spent a great deal of time with when my own parents couldn't be bothered with me, I realised that quite a young age that I couldn't share any problems with them. I learned to keep any emotions to myself because they would be used to humiliate or belittle me. I grew up thinking such behaviour was normal - when I had my own children, I realise it wasn't.

I wonder if his Disney Dad antics were to punish your mother with in her face bling whilst she was struggling? Maybe he dropped contact when you moved out of home and his performative spending wouldn’t be visible to hurt your Mum anymore?

TBH I tend to "blame" the parents in general, but that might be because mine are not yet adult and I cannot imagine not trying to move Heaven and Earth to keep the relationship with my dc healthy.

As a general observation, I would also say IME these situations tend to occur when the parent has taken decisions over the years to prioritise their own needs over the dc and at some point the DC tend to feel enough is enough (or they have simply been raised to believe putting their own feelings first is always justifiable as a simple premise, so when a conflict of interest comes along there isn't much emphasis on trying to work through things as a kind of family attitude generally).

But obviously there are many different situations. I don't think a blanket rule works, but when the parent has left the family home or similar, I do tend to thing something along the lines of you get back what you put in as a parent.

ETA sometimes DILS or SonILS can be a relevant factor in the dynamic too. Lots of Dils, in particular, seem to feel it is a good idea to "wean" a man off his family, and I have seen that spiral to NC. And I guess sometimes the PILS can be at fault in triggering that too.

I wouldn’t form an opinion if I didn’t have the facts. The truth is that often parents bring it on themselves BUT adult children are seeking more and more to blame parents for their own poor decision making, and poor mental health is automatically blamed on parents (usually mothers). I had a less than perfect upbringing but kept the relationship going as there was nothing inherently bad about my parents. One of my adult children has brought untold stress but again the relationship has continued with not inconsiderable effort and heartache on my part.

He didn’t know how to parent so compensated by throwing cash my way.

I think, @Sartre , this is often a factor in these NC situations. Certain types of parent think they can "tick the parenting" box by supplying funds, and then, because their concept of the relationship is money-oriented, feel they have "bought the rights" to a real relationship - which obviously stops working when the DC grasp the fact that there is more to parenting than paying allowances or splurging on trips, and realise they have been denied this.

I realise it didn't unravel quite that way for you, but I think the "type" who think financial provision can stand in as a proxy for parenting is very common.

Seems that there can be lots of reasons for estrangement - addiction in one/ both parents, an enabler or addiction in a child.

Undiagnosed MH or ND or PD issues at either or both ends - so constant mis-attunements build up resentment / frustration or volatility over time.

No ability on either side to listen, reflect and adapt rather than jump to defensiveness which exacerbates every situation.

No ability to be mentally or emotionally flexible, too rigid and entrenched, self righteous in opinions and behaviours.

I do think a new partner of a child can have an impact on estrangement - but it’s hard to know if the new partner just clearly sees a very toxic family and encourages their partner to emotionally protect themselves with LC/NC - or if the new partner is the emotionally unstable wrong ‘un and is isolating their partner from a normal healthy family in a controlling way.

Obviously you can often get the heady mix off all of these issues in family life.

I think the most powerful question to either party is to ask ‘how can this be resolved?’ that often reveals that one party doesn’t want it resolved.

I secretly think the parents were arseholes and they fully deserve the estrangement.
Nothing more, nothing less.

I do think a new partner of a child can have an impact on estrangement

This is very true. You see all the time on blended family boards how often the subsequent partner genuinely believes they have the right to a fresh slate and calling the shots to their tune, with little respect for the existing dc.

I wouldn't think either as both parties can be at fault but if it was both children it would seem more likely to be the parent that has caused the issue.

I wouldn’t assume either.

I mean I do get the impression sometimes from mumsnet that going NC can be done for the silliest of reasons

but actually a full estrangement is usually due to very complex issues. People shouldn’t be judged for it or have nosey people apportioning blame without knowing anything

While I always believe its none of my business, I would generally assume its the parents, and thats likely because I have awful parents who don't really deserve contact, but ultimately it's the kindest thing I can do to maintain something. I know how awful it probably has gotten for someone to take on the guilt and sadness of never seeing their own parents.

Saying that I know of one situation where the adult child is objectively the root cause of an estrangement. In general I try not to judge as I never have all the facts.

I haven't voted because I don't think it is that straightforward.

I confess that my initial, instinctive reaction, before I had time to consciously think it through ( since my Mother was basically a narcissist), would be to think that almost certainly it is the parent's fault.

But that would be followed up, only seconds later, by the reflection that none of us know what goes on 'behind closed doors', I don't know what the real truth is, and I couldn't then judge.

That some people take the nuclear option without any attempt at negotiating a better relationship. It's much less emotionally demanding just to walk away even over something very trivial. I make no judgement here.
Some people have excellent reasons to have very little contact with whoever.

I think that's fair. One of the more disturbing oddities of Mn, which is full of people who visibly struggle with any kind of normal relationship functioning, whether it's with someone they met on holiday, a sibling, friend or parent, is how many people default to 'Go NC!' after some kind of minor tiff or misunderstanding.

I wouldn't make any judgements either way.

My dad was estranged from his mother because she abandoned him from a young age, dumping him in various children homes, coming back for him and dumping him in a different one, wouldn't let a nice family adopt him when the chance came... When he was adult, she collected him and told him he becomes a nurse, but he wasn't very good and when he quit, she refused to talk to him for over a year ... Even tho they were living together! A whole year of silent treatment!!

So she was the problem.

But my sister is estranged from the family.... And that was her fault. My parents bent over backwards for her. But she just lied about any and everything, had her children taken away from her but told social services all these lies about the family so no one else could foster them. It's to the point that her own children are not estranged from her when they found out their Uncle was actually a really nice person and did not kill their father like she had convinced them🤦‍♀️. After my parents died I made contact and my siblings have gone to accepting her Facebook friend request but that's it.... I found some particularly nasty letters when clearing my parents house so I have completely blocked her and won't have anything to do with her for the rest of our lives.

So.... Parent/child estrangement can be either ones fault.

Interesting. No I’d never remotely considered this but it could indeed be the case. My mum left him when I was a baby with no warning at all, she gathered our things and went when he was at work. I have asked her why numerous times and she just said she didn’t love him, they were young and she fancied the pants off him but didn’t love him.

He had a breakdown afterwards and refused to see me at all until he had a paternity test. I didn’t know this until my mum told me in my early 20s. My mum never cheated but she said he just totally lost his shit when she left. Anyway, he never told her the results but agreed to start seeing me…

She gritted her teeth lots and never badmouthed him in front of me but it must have been tough. I’ll never forget, for example, when someone at school smashed my new iPod and I called him crying so he just replaced it. My mum was so pissed off, she couldn’t afford things like that at all. So yes, maybe it was through sheer spite. Thanks for this, it’s given me an alternative perspective to consider!

I'd be more likely to think the parents were responsible because I think it should take a LOT before a parent chooses to become estranged from their own child. The power dynamic is different for one thing - parents can do so much more damage to their children than vice versa. So I think it's much more likely that an adult child would have cut off their parents to protect themselves.

I wouldn’t jump to a conclusion either way. If it was parents poor behaviour it’s also not something I’d guard with suspicion.

People (kids and adults) have very complex relationships and because they treat each other a certain way doesn’t mean they’ll treat each other in the same manner. Therefore if a parent fell out with their kid I would think “complex and back story. Nothing to do with me”.

I need more options because I don’t speak to my mum. She thinks nothing is her fault!!

I think this post puts it well.

I’ve never seen a situation where the parent was blameless. I’m sure it happens but I think it’s quite rare.

I thought it was very interesting, for example, how the author Alice Munro wrote fictional short stories about a daughter who cut off contact with her mother for no reason, and then recently it transpired that Munro turned a blind eye to her own daughter’s childhood sexual abuse IRL. Narcissists are blind to reality.

I’ve never seen a situation where the parent was blameless. I’m sure it happens but I think it’s quite rare.

Putting aside clear cases of neglect or abuse, I agree it is still rare that any parent is entirely blameless....simply because no parent is perfect. Mine weren’t. Then again, neither was I.

Estrangement can sometimes come from an inability to accept those imperfections, perceiving others parents as perfect (they are not), or from lacking the confidence to disagree with your parents. It is easier to place blame elsewhere than to confront our own shortcoming.

I remember, years ago in my early 20s, being on one of those corporate discover yourself week long residential courses (which I loathe), at one session, one of the counsellors challenged me asking, as an adult, at what point do you stop explaining everything through your parents and take ownership of it. That kind of stuck, and with increasing confidence I was able to recognise my parents were just flawed people like we all are.

Yeah, as someone who cut their parents off for a period, we are in contact now but I keep them at arms length, it’s nearly always the parents.
My parents should not, ever, have had children. I have told them that and they agree. I’m lucky that I’m an only
child because not only would another poor child have been inflicted with my parents shoddy parenting it would likely have been even worse because my mother who admits she had no emotional spoons for me when I was a child due to my Dads temper (I strongly suspect my Dad is autistic but he ‘doesn’t believe in mental health’) would have had even less to give. They are image obsessed, vain people who should have just lived their lives being the two of them. Even now their house is like a show home, looks like no-one lives there. Not a hair out of place, so having a child was a nightmare for them. The smacked me around a lot, locked me in my room for so long I would pee in my bin. My childhood was made up of them screaming and shouting at each other and at me. Dad was rarely around he worked late constantly. One night when I was 6 or 7, my Mum got so fed up she screamed at me, simply walked out of the house, got in her car and drove off for about half an hour, nobody else was in the house.

School always thought I was ‘quirky’ but never looked into it because they saw a pair of middle class earners who took their child on at least two foreign holidays a year and put on a great show to everyone outside the house.

It took me a long time to learn that love isn’t screaming at each other, that being treated with kindness is actually the bare minimum and that the way I was treated isn’t normal. I raised my children with zero role models and honestly that was tough not having anything to draw on.

All this to say: yes it’s often the parents. Very few people believed me when I told them what I went through after I cut them off. People curate appearances very carefully!

there's much less respect today. I could have gone nc with parents, some people would have done . You just put up with it and took the good with the bad Learnt to navigate. You couldn't imagine not seeing them ever.
These days I think people cut people off easier.
So they weren't estranged but could have been. Everyone is different what they can take.

Sounds like your grandmother and sister are cut from the same cloth - some MH or personality disorder in common.