Parental estrangement. What do you secretly think?

[Orphlids]

I’m interested in outsiders’ views on estrangements between parents and their adult children. If you’ve met, or were to meet someone, and then discovered they were estranged from both their adult children, what would your initial thoughts be, assuming you knew nothing more about how the estrangement came to happen?

UABU - you wouldn’t think negatively about the parent. You’d be prepared accept the adult children were perhaps unpleasant, or difficult people. You’d feel sorry for the parent.

UANBU - you’d suspect the parent’s poor behaviour was more likely to have caused the estrangements, and you might view that person with suspicion.

Which is closer to your view? I’d be interested in any thoughts, if you’d like to comment in further detail.

I wouldn't think either or, I would think something must have happened at some point, but it could be either parties fault or issue. I also would assume there are two sides to a story and not be judgemental unless I knew the full facts and it was something like abuse suffered and it was not a disputable issue like an argument over a wedding or something where both sides bave a valid case.

You should not assume, you don't know.
I know someone is estranged from their kids. I don't know why, it's nothing to do with me. I've never asked.
It has no bearing on being friends.

I’d like to think I wouldn’t think anything or judge.
There are 3 sides to every story - parents side, children’s side and then what actually happened.
None of us knows the reality - only what we’re told- so it’s not my place to form an opinion.

Cutting off a parent is so painful, I do not think any adult children willingly do it. I think the main exceptions would be where the child has some sort of addiction, or is subject to coercive control (either from family or a cult type situation).

So unless the parent can tell me the reason for the estrangement is one of those, or that the parent had initiated the estrangement, I would tend to assume the issue was on the parent's side. Two children cutting their parent off would cement that view.

I've got adult children.

I'd think that it was likely to be an inherently complex situation, with more grey than anyone would prefer, especially the protagonists themselves.

If multiple adult offspring were actively estranged from the same parent, I'd be likely to assume that in all probability a lot more culpability was likely to lay with that parent.

From my point of view, I know that 3 out of 4 of my siblings have actively considered going no contact, have gone low contact at varying points with varying degrees of success, and I know that my mother and her cohort would vociferously deny that she had ever given any reason for any sort of estrangement.

On the other hand, I'm uneasily aware of just how much could be laid at my door, and just how much my kids have had to put up with from me.

I've definitely seen both scenarios and but think the general mumsnet view that "children wouldn't cut contact without a very good reason" is way off the mark and just doesn't line up with reality.

Win win for you, you haven't got the stress of his two daughters.

I think narcissism and entitlement are actually just as common.

From personal experience, it depends how honest people are 🤷🏻‍♀️

'M 51. I've been nc with my mum for 14 years.

She would tell you that it's because I'm an intellectual snob. I have a first class degree and a masters and a professional career and think I'm better than her (she was a secretary) and her partner (a lorry driver). She's done nothing wrong. My sibling is also nc but that's because I've influenced him...

I know this is what she tells people because someone in the family told me it was the reason she'd given them and they told me to grow up.

The actual reason is that she was a safeguarding risk to my children. The police and SS were involved and I was told that continued contact would result in a S47 enquiry and possible removal of my children.

I have the Initial Assessment paperwork to prove it but never will be able to because I'm not allowed to tell people for legal reasons, which means that not even my children know.

So I wouldn't judge anyone who told me they were estranged from parents or vice versa or even ask why because it's rarely a happy tale and people are entitled to privacy.

Sorry, not sure what you mean by your comment? Are you saying that a child is as likely to be entitled as a parent is to be narcisstic?

I'm not sure I believe that people who are entitled cut off relatives - they tend to need them to be at their beck and call, whether practically or financially. Actually, a bit like narcissists.

This precisely ^^ neither is closer to my view.

And while it’s possible both children are entitled narcissists and the parent is a saint, you do have to wonder how they both ended up like that if they had exemplary parenting.

As someone who’s dad managed to convince anyone who’d listen that I’d abandoned him and was a terrible, heartless daughter (I used to call him once a week, help organise his housing, visit him at least four times per year - much more at points when he was struggling - when I lived the other side of the country with a FT job and family! On top of also being the support and main contact for my disabled sister) I believe absolutely nothing from anyone! If you’d met any of my dad’s brothers and sisters you’d have thought I was the most selfish person alive 😂

I also realise this subject obviously triggers some memories for me and perhaps I need more therapy 😳

I tend to nod politely, and avoid any chances somebody might take to revisit the subject.

I care less about who did wrong, when, why & how in their life than I do about my avoidance of picking at a now well healed scar.

Shit happens. Even the best parent can poorly resist the temptation to hurt, no matter the cost, in their darkest of moments. Even a fairly crap parent can be blamed well beyond the genuine limits of their failures.

The best outcome for all involved is individuals putting down a burden that is not their to carry. Holding themselves accountable where it was a burden they created. And a lot of forgiveness, that will come when it is good and ready, unforced. Which does not necessarily result in being reunited. Sometimes that is not possible. I can’t help anybody with that because it is an enormous task, and I need to stay focused on making sure my own task does not come undone by poking at it too much.

I wouldn’t think either without knowing the details . I do think that nowadays with so much emphasis on mental health / counselling and indeed having to find a reason for anything and everything that has ever happened to you that there will be increasing numbers of estranged families whereas back in the day you were more likely to just put up with your parents whether they were nice / good or not .I have adult children and don’t have issues with them and as we are still a close family and they actively choose to spend time with us I assume they don’t have issues with us .

Having read some posts on the Gransnet estrangement forum, I'd be inclined to think that the parents are at fault - the lack of introspection there is astounding!

This would be my thought as well.

I dated a man for a while who was estranged from his parents and his sister. I didn't really have any judgment on that because if they had a difficult childhood it would make sense that he might want to distance himself from his entire family. But then I discovered that he was also estranged from his teenage children, and I began to think that maybe the problem was him.

I would think there's a story there.

Would not jump to conclusions either way.

My reaction would be that it is none of my business!.

I think that people who cut off a relative usually have good reasons for it and there is no need for them to justify themselves.

I also believe that the fact that you are related to someone does not mean that:

• you need to keep them in your life at all cost
• you necessarily have anything in common with them or automatically like them.

I think it is good that we are more open about this and that there growing understanding that a toxic/uncaring/abusive relative can be kicked out of your life.

I never understood while people will (rightly) praise someone for leaving a toxic partner or kicking a joxic friend out of their life but still seem to think that you can't do that with a toxic parent, sibling and so on and that they should be tolerated.

To me common sense says that we should stay away from people who cause us harm and distress, full stop.

In my experience it’s the parents. The pattern seems to be those who had kids when young in the 70s - that has lead to issues like divorce or self focused behaviour. So I have some sympathy for being of a different generation - perhaps unfulfilled dreams, poor marriages etc but yes it has been the parents really.

I can’t think of a single time it’s been the adult kids fault. Even the people I know who had drug issues or been selfish etc seem to have supportive parents.

My two cousins are estranged/low contact with both my auntie and uncle (who are separated but still married and living at different ends of the same house).

From my point if view, and having met all of them at various occasions, they are all in some way to blame. The parents are overbearing, smothering and micromanaging, and the adult kids are spoilt, selfish and bratty.

I’m estranged from my 22 year old daughter and as I’m a young mum and most of my friends have young children I do feel their judgement towards me. However, my friends who have older children are much more understanding and there is a knowing nod.

My situation is complicated and I hope, it’s not forever but who knows?

I have a lot of grace and understanding for both sides when they disclose similar relationships.

Agree with all of this.
There's a lot of people out there who think that because you are related to someone, you are entitled to behave in however way you see fit and still be entitled to that person's company. If my best friend was otherwise wonderful, but made constant comments about my weight, or my child's weight, I wouldnt have her in my life. Yet constant weight comments from parents would by most people's standards not be 'enough' to cut a parent out. Anything that means you dont enjoy spending time with that person is a good enough reason - just because a particular combination of people had sex doesnt entitle someone to your company for eternity.

If a parent was estranged from one or an only child, I would just assume it was a personality clash and sad but no specific blame (unless I had other information). If a parent was estranged from two or more children, I would assume the parent played a larger role.

Your logic fails in my case...I am an only child and estranged from my mother for very good reasons that don't need anyone else to validate them!