Parental estrangement. What do you secretly think?

[Orphlids]

I’m interested in outsiders’ views on estrangements between parents and their adult children. If you’ve met, or were to meet someone, and then discovered they were estranged from both their adult children, what would your initial thoughts be, assuming you knew nothing more about how the estrangement came to happen?

UABU - you wouldn’t think negatively about the parent. You’d be prepared accept the adult children were perhaps unpleasant, or difficult people. You’d feel sorry for the parent.

UANBU - you’d suspect the parent’s poor behaviour was more likely to have caused the estrangements, and you might view that person with suspicion.

Which is closer to your view? I’d be interested in any thoughts, if you’d like to comment in further detail.

I’m estranged as were 2 other siblings. Well one sways in and out but generally doesn’t like our parents!

I dream of having parents who would love me, hug me, support me, listen to me. But no, we never received any of those things. My mother is just awful.
a cousin said to me recently when I told her we were estranged that it was well known that our house was a very difficult place to be and that she’s not surprised. It made me feel better.
no child wants to be away from their parent. I tried full relationship, low contact, even lower, polite chat, to nothing. I twisted and turned it, to see if I could make anything work. I can’t. Life is easier since, no drama. No fear of abusive phone calls or texts. No anticipating her mood. Never knowing what version I was going to get. It’s not living. Age 34 I made the switch.

I've noticed it's always the same types who become estranged the ones who are entitled on either side and never feel they have done anything wrong and can't question themslves.

totally disagree with this. all the people I know who are estranged from parents have spent years second guessing themselves and trying to change their own behaviour to "appease" their parents, and have gone NC because they've finally realised they can't "fix" their parents. Whilst the parents just blame their children and refuse to even consider their behaviour might be the problem.

I do agree that not being prepared to self reflect is a key part of estrangement. But if you're unable to self reflect you are also unable to accept any blame.

No.

I didn't mean both sides are entitled but usually one side is.
One side is the oak the other has been the willow

And yes entitled people who can't self reflect of course wont take the blame.
Which is exactly what I've said.

As someone in their 30s, I only know very few people who are estranged from abusive parents. If I’m being honest, most of my friends and family who are estranged or low contact with flawed but non-abusive parents are people I would describe as selfish/ difficult people who also stuggle to maintain friendships, and distance themselves from people who don’t cater to their ever whim.

I think as a society we have less tolerance for community. In my experience, community minded people inherently understand that no-one, including themselves and their parents, is perfect and that investing in complicated (but non-abusive) family relationships may be difficult in the short term but reaps rewards and can be very fulfilling in the long term.

However, since we are more selfish as a society, I think people are more likely to cut friends and family off for self-focused reasons than previous generations. Because of that, I don’t automatically judge the parent or the adult child for an estrangement (unless it’s the parent going no contact with their child) - I think it’s symptomatic of the society we’re in where the quick fix to relationships is to just bin them off.

Neither option would be my view because life and relationships aren't that simple or black and white. I'd keep an open mind.

In my stepdc case, they were told their dad cheated.

he did not. It was her that had the affair. When we met they had been living together for a year. I spoke to some of her friends who also confirm it was her cheated and she would bring the OM on nights out while they were still married.

we actually never spoke to the kids about it as didn’t want to affect their relationship with their mum. Unfortunately that gave her the chance to change the narrative.

so sometimes the reason the children go nc is not truth.

dh genuinely didn’t know why they went low contact for years. Until a friends dc let on that the sdc used to talk about how he cheated and he would cheat on me and our relationship wouldn’t last.

eta: while it’s definitely not Dh’s fault his kids are nc, I wouldn’t say it’s because they are awful people either. They’ve just heard a certain story from being so young that it’s the truth to them. Plus if they challenged it they’d have to admit their mum is a shitty person 🤷‍♀️.

My mum is very much one of those "half people" so subject to trauma and abuse at fundamental times

I've never heard "half people" before, @TheNinkyNonkyIsATardis, and am interested in what you meant.

Sorry to hear about your sister's experience. You sound very understanding of both her and your mum.

I would tend to think that it must be the parent(s) to blame.
I accept that this may be unfair, but it would be my assumption nonetheless.

I am sure my sister has some sort of personality disorder. She has a pattern of ghosting people. She has stopped speaking to my parents for months at a time and then just contacts them as if nothing has happened. From my parents' POV. they are completely bewildered by most of the episodes of NC.

She's currently NC with me and I have NFI why. The last time I saw her, everything was fine. I'm actually OK with being persona non grata and am really hoping it remains this way because I have decided I want no contact with her going forwards ever.

I clearly said in my first post that both parties are responsible for the situation.
And if you think about it, the responsibilities are actually likely to be multi-generational, seeing as difficult parents probably had difficult parents themselves.

I am estranged from my parents, and subsequently the rest of my family. Sometimes it was other people cutting off contact, and sometimes it was me.

My dad just isn't really interested in me as he prefers the company of men. It was tough to go through that realisation but I can't change it.

My mum has been a bit more difficult. I have no issues with the difficulties I had in my childhood, I have had a lot of therapy and am now much more in control and understanding of the situation. It's her behaviour towards me as an adult that has been the issue. She still treats me as if I am 8 years old (walking in on me in the shower etc.. when I am in my 30s) and now I have started putting boundaries in she has acted very strongly to them.

So it doesn't have to be as dramatic as abuse or naricissim just immaturity. I read a book called "Adult Children of Emmotianlly Immature Adults" that helped re-orientate me to the realitity of the "little" behaviours that drain you energy.

I’d want nothing to do with them. BOTH children don’t talk to them? They’re not a good person.

I agree. Abusive situations aside, I think estrangement situations can be made better or worse by the people in the immediate vicinity. If the general vibe is ‘yes that wasn’t the best decision [about whatever an issue is] but let’s move on’ then a lot of situations can be overcome. If the general vibe is ‘you are quite right and you mustn’t back down on this you must insist on an apology’ then people can become estranged or just drift apart.

I know of several situations in my own family which, taken in isolation, could be used as a reason for a row/estrangement. But, aided by strong amounts of trust in the overall family unit by the related and non-related family members, and by the fact that over time, faults lie in a variety of directions, everyone just carries on.

If all children were estranged then i would think the issue is with the parents. However if it was just one child i would think that the child or their partner were the cause.

Neither of us has reached out to the other, so I guess it is both of our choices. We just couldn't make each other happy, and our presence in each other's lives causes so much anger. I'm here when or if she ever wants to talk; I'm more than happy to examine my own behaviour (and have done already), but not until we can both do that calmly.

Her reasoning was that she thinks I hate her. I don't. But her behaviour past the age of eighteen, the choices she made, and the erratic behaviour definitely made me very detached. COVID was absolutely horrendous for us all, and a lot of her mental health problems stem from that time. I took my eye off the ball of parenting with a big new job and a full-house renovation during lockdown.

It's called curiosity and learning stuff, some people are interested in human/family relationships, some are interested in rocks, or bagpipes, or the flight path of the european swallow.

Some people's zzzzz is another person's fascination; and frankly an interest in relationships is probably one of the less weird things human become diverted by.

I wouldn’t think anything - I’d understand that without living that specific reality, I have no idea why people make the choices I do.

Believe it or not, sometimes it’s the parent who has to choose to go NC with the adult child. Some children, sometimes, are dangerous to their parents. Some children have suffered parental alienation, leading to one parent having to make difficult choices to protect other children.

Some adult children are just arseholes. So are some parents.

I do this thing where I mind my own business tbh. More people should give it a go.

IMHO it’s always the parents fault when the relationship breaks down.

The relationship between a parent and child starts at birth. The relationship starts to decline while the child is still a child and as one party is a child, they can’t be blamed. Yes some children are difficult to parent but as the adult, the parent is responsible for the relationship. Parenting isn’t easy and if you don’t make a massive effort, things can go wrong.

I think it’s symptomatic of the society we’re in where the quick fix to relationships is to just bin them off.

Adult children going NC with their parents is not done lightly, and is generally the last resort after years and years of trying to mend the relationship. It's not a "quick fix".

If two people have a great relationship and they "bin it off" for no particularly good reason, I would suggest that it wasn't such a great relationship in the first place, no matter what it seemed like as a surface outsider.

I don’t speak to my mother or my sister (and my sister barely speaks to my mother, although I think she does see her a bit), my dad is dead. There are many reasons, too many to list here and some would be outing - I’m certain that my mum presents me to others as a horrible, ungrateful daughter and will never consider her own behaviour as the reason. My family was deeply disfunctional and we have all been damaged by it - it is better for all of us that we stay away from each other. My closest friends know, but even they judge a little - one friend said, ‘but surely you’d go and see her if something dreadful happened’ and was visibly shocked when I said that I wouldn’t.

Tbh, though, I'd suggest that if someone's interest is asking intrusive questions about someone else's personal circumstances, that can't really be considered a genuine interest.

Someone else's harrowing life story shouldn't be your 'fascination'.

If you're talking about people finding it goulish and entertaining, like those awful cheap magazines with shocking personal stories, then that's not taking an interest, that's voyeurisim.

I'm talking about the people you describe, whose interest, rather than being geology or learning an instrument or cultural history (or whatever rocks and bagpipes were supposed to suggest), is other people's personal business and family circumstances.

Thank you for this, really helpful.

It is of course difficult to be objective and everyone has their own perspective, but I'd say don't judge from the outside, although it's all too easy to.

I'm a parent of a child in their late teens in low contact, currently NC with me. I'm certainly in many (perhaps most) ways at fault and accept their criticisms and have apologised, and have tried to actively address most of them and co-operated with all external agencies who have been involved, but I have found it hard to understand my child's reluctance to even talk with externals present or to try to renegotiate our relationship - their preference is just to hide under the wing of their new partner and their family, who enable the situation.

I had in many ways dysfunctional parents and stepparents who never apologised for anything but I kept reaching out to them and am in contact with all who are alive or who haven't estranged themselves from me.

I guess I would just hope for a little more emotional bandwidth and forgiveness when it is asked for, combined with tangible examples of a desire to change. Everything seems to be so final and extreme these days.