AIBU to be upset after my parents drove DD unsafely?

[worralorralozza]

Staying back at my parent's for Easter. They are in mid to late 70s. My mum is very energetic and active and always encourages me to leave my daughter with them for a day or two so I have some time to myself, which is always much appreciated. I spent a night in a B&B, got back last night and plan to spend the rest of the week hanging out with DD. However last night my mother told me the the 'hilarious' story of how they had driven DD 5 miles without a seatbelt on. Apparently they had gone to pick up DD from an afternoon at my MILs and had decided to use their vintage car instead of their regular car for the journey. On the way there, DD had sat in the front. On they way back, DD had asked to sit in the back next to Nanna, whilst Grandad drove. They set off before DD's seat belt was fastened and realised in motion that it was defective. Rather than stopping and moving DD into the front seat, they decided Nanna would simply hold DDs seat belt in place over her. DD apparently protested about this, said she didn't feel safe and expressed concern that they would get in trouble with the police, but the journey went ahead regardless. I unfortunately reacted very angrily, telling my parents that a 7 year old clearly has more sense than they do. I have spoken to DD this morning, said she was right to express concern and told her I will tell them never to put her in an unsafe position ever again. Meanwhile my mother has been shouting at me when I asked her to clarify the circumstances, arguing that they didn't think this was against the law, offering no justification for not swapping her into the front seat other than 'not wanting to stop', and currently treating me like I'm getting hysterical over nothing.

AIBU - I'm getting hysterical over nothing
YANBU - Never leave DD in their care again

Yes you are unreasonable. Ask her politely not to do again as it’s not safe but don’t get hysterical. We grew up in 80s/90s like that we hardly had carseats, not seatbelts on etc. and we are still alive. I bet your parents did that with you as well. So calm down!

I'm in my late 40s and cars didn't even have seatbelts in the back seat when I was a child

The issue is trust. They cannot be trusted to make decision in her wellbeing. They cannot be trusted to listen to her own concerns. The risk was death. Likelihood it would be fine but the possibility was the worst possible and everyone knows that.

Unlikr other posters, I would never leave them alone with her again. We took that decision (didn’t tell them) with my in-laws. My DH didn’t want to go no contact but they were physically and emotionally abusive to him so we gave them no opportunity to do this to our children. Even then one of our kids found it hard to be around them as they’d override his boundaries in tiny ways - like help him take a jumper off even after he’d said no (he’s autistic so this was important to him) - so we silently added the rule that when he was little one of us would always be in arms reach for him.

My DH once did something risky safety wise (didn’t hold 2 year olds hand by side of busy road and turned his back on him to take a photo) because he was annoyed at my mother for constantly reminding us to be cautious (we were on holiday with them). I still remember how I felt when I turned round! - I told him that if it had been anyone else they would be never allowed alone with the children and that any more likely/possible games would impact our marriage.

Your mother shouting at you when she broke the law and endangered your child's life, and scared her, is really taking the piss.

Use your own judgement on whether she's capable of having your child unsupervised again, and only after she has apologised for shouting and her actions.

Similarly to a pp, I didn’t allow my parents to drive my dc anywhere - my mum is a nervous wreck and my dad was a maniac, both terrible, unsafe drivers. I am a nervous traveller because of my dad’s driving - he wrote off every car he ever had and I was in several car accidents as a child. I just shut them down every time they tried to suggest it. Obviously I don’t think you’re unreasonable - I would have hit the roof and would not trust them to drive your dd anywhere again.

People saying how they didn't have or use seatbelts decades ago and survived- this is irrelevant.
Everyone should want the best for their kid, basic safety, following simple laws, not risking their lives are all very bare minimum things.

Which bit are you most annoyed at? The bit where your DD sat in the front with a booster seat or the bit where she sat in the rear without a seatbelt? I looked up the rules on children in cars and was surprised to see that in certain circumstances a child can travel unrestrained in the back of a car. If the car doesn't have rear seatbelts it’s ok. If it’s a taxi it’s ok. That tells me that the risk of a child travelling unrestrained in the back of a car is not as high risk as one might believe.
All that being said, your parents were being dicks by not putting her back in the front with a booster seat. Do you believe they’d do this again? If so, then you make it clear that they cannot take her out in a car again.

So she presumably wasn’t in a car seat either? You mention the belt but not a seat which makes me think you were aware there wasn’t one and that they’ve probably driver her multiple times before, with your awareness, with only the adult belt over her. That’s illegal too at her age.
I’d be livid but I don’t think I’d prevent her ever being in the car with them again. Tell them if they want to drive with her in the car again they need to buy a proper car seat. Better yet, buy it for them. Make sure it’s properly fitted.

I'm guessing the only reason your mother has told you is she was worried your DD would tell you, otherwise I can't think why else she's mention it.

Because she either genuinely thinks it was completely okay and therefore not noteworthy to mention, or she knows it was a mistake and would admit it. But she's obviously worried about you're reaction. And I can see why.

Personally I would forgive and move on but set a clear rule and expectation if you want them looking after your DD again.

No harm was done and it it technically legal in some circumstances eg taxis so I'd cut them some slack.

The way you should have tackled this is to say how much you appreciate them caring for your dc, and you know it was only a one off and a few miles, and the chances of anything happening, but it just makes you very anxious and would they be abke to put your mind at rest.
Going in with hyperbole and catastrophising is bound to get their backs up

@Noshadelamp they don't want forgiven, the mother is shouting at OP.

It sounds like it was an unusual conjunction of circumstances that led to this lapse. I assume they use a seat belt when one is available which is pretty much all the time?

I think if you'd calmly but firmly stated this was not to happen again rather than lost your rag this would not have escalated. Bit if you don't want to back down then by all means stop them looking after your dd again, they'll get over it.

Them doubling down sounds like they've realised they're wrong and they're angry at you for pointing it out.

I'd not leave her with them alone again either. Visits with you, yes. Visits without you, no.

Not only as you can't trust them, but to show your daughter that she was right, and that you listened to her concerns even when they didn't. She needs to know she can tell you when a grown up has made her feel unsafe and that you will take calm, decisive action to safeguard her going forwards.

Not necessarily, seatbelts weren’t a legal requirement for children until 1989. And car seats weren’t mandatory until 2006.

@DontBeADick11 Are you sure?

I remember from about early 1970s, at least, new vehicles had to be fitted with seat belts even though it wasn't required to use them. I am pretty sure I can remember wearing seatbelts becoming a legal requirement in about 1982/3.

Unless you are saying that adults had to wear them but not children.

Its great that you care about your child’s car safety so I would recommend looking into why your DD ought to still be in a high back booster with side protection.

My daughter is 7 (although 8 next month) and is 140cm

And so?

When I was growing up, during the 70s and early 80s, our cars, which were new when my parents bought them, didn’t have seatbelts in the back seats. It was deemed unnecessary to have seatbelts in the back seats, which were considered safer than front seats.

I remember that seatbelts became a legal requirement during the early 80s, because my DM consistently refused to use them at first.

Only mandated in the front seats at that time. I can remember , in the 70s, that my Aunties car had some sort of bench seat in the back, no seatbelts - as kids we would be rolling about on the way to Blackpool.

As for this instance, nobody was hurt, it was a stupid thing to do, tell them you are unhappy about it.. I don’t know why everything has to be a huge drama. OP was brought up by these “dangerous and risky” people, and appears to have survived.

It's not unusual in the UK

Became law for front seats in 1983. Rear in 1991.

Its obviously just opened a huge can of worms that when they have DD they think they are "in charge" and up until now the fact that their care has matched your expectations is due to chance rather than any actual respect they have for you.

I suspect deep down they feel embarrassed and ashamed that they fell short and won't face up to it so I'd let things cool down for a while and build up to leaving her in their care again once they've demonstrated thst they actually will take your feelings into account if they have her alone, rather than just reverting to a position of trust. But I expect that will be shown through a behaviour change of you seeing them check things with you while you're all together rather than an actual apology.

That tells me that the risk of a child travelling unrestrained in the back of a car is not as high risk as one might believe.

I don't think it does. I think it tells you that the amount of time children spend travelling in taxis and vintage cars with no seatbelts is a drop in the ocean of all time children spend travelling in cars, so on a population level, it does not add a large amount of risk and there are practical issues with enforcing the use of car seats in vintage cars and taxis. The UK law has decided on the side of balancing that practicality with the very small possible increase in injured/dead children.

However, the risk to any individual child in that situation if you do crash is high. It's difficult to find absolute figures, but the best estimate I can find is that a child over 4 is around 3 times more likely to be killed or seriously injured in a crash if unrestrained, compared with being properly restrained in the age/size appropriate seat or seatbelt. It is even higher in the front seat, which is why the back is specified. That doesn't mean the back is low risk, it just means it's lower risk. It's less like "Try to put a seatbelt on them if possible, but if it's not, then just stick them in the back and they'll be fine" and more like "Always use a seatbelt or car seat for children, if you absolutely cannot for some extreme rare reason, at least put them in the back, but try to avoid this situation if at all possible".

Physics doesn't change because of the type of car and vintage cars are less likely to have safety features like ABS or power assisted steering which can help avoid crashes, or things like curtain airbags in the back either. Older cars also have less in the way of things like crumple zones which absorb some of the impact of a crash, so they transfer more force to the occupants. Arguably, it's more dangerous for children to travel unrestrained in a vintage car than a modern car, the only reason that it's allowed as an exception is because there is often no way to attach modern car seats to older cars safely.

Ah yes that rings a bell. I had forgotten that seatbelts were only mandatory in the front. I remember having to wear them from about 1983. I suppose children in the backseat were considered OK to ride unrestrained but presumably the 1989 date mentioned earlier is when that changed.

My Dad had a Ford Escort van and we kids just sat in the back on cushions!

No booster seat i wouldn't be happy but would let it go. No seat belt id be fuming. Absolutely not ok