AIBU to think face coverings in public should be banned?

[OpheliaWasntMad]

Should all types of face covering in public be banned? I think they should. Mainly I’m concerned that people in balaclavas and face coverings are shoplifting and stealing phones etc with impunity.
People with balaclavas on marches look threatening and sinister.
Women with niqabs create a barrier between themselves and others as it’s hard to form connections if you can’t see someone’s facial expressions.
I think all face covering should be banned. It contributes to a society that feels more unsafe and divided.

No - I think banning groups and implementation of curfews is more draconian and will be unfair to young people who are innocent . Much fairer to ban all face coverings apart from those people who have a medical need

But you can’t define medical need in a way that’s fair either.
And the kids or thugs will just say “I’ve got a medical need”. Because there’s no way you can create a fair system that allows someone to be cleared as a medical need. And no one should have to prove a medical need anyway. No one is entitled to that private medical information.

If the problem is gangs of teenagers shoplifting then stop the gangs of teenagers shoplifting. I suggested that’s better done by providing upskilling and resources in the area - it’s your own logic that suggests you would think curfews are better. Because that’s the same level of draconian policing you are suggesting. You’re just not realising how draconian that law would be for people with a medical need. (It would be the same level of draconian power used against people who need to wear them. They would have to carry identification and proof and share their private medical records with strangers for permission to look after their health. And that permission could be-removed to their detriment. There’s no backsies once you caught an infection).

I don’t agree that it’s draconian to say that people should not disguise their identity by covering their face in public .
I think that is common sense to expect people to be identifiable as it creates a safer environment for everyone.
I don’t think normal medical masks will be adopted by big groups of young people because it is implausible that they will all have a medical need.

Yes exactly. I wear a mask in the winter on the tube as I have low immunity. I get lots of colds in January onwards so I wear one to give myself some protection. I also don’t want to have to be off sick from work unnecessarily just for social cohesion purposes.

If you have a medical need then you should continue to wear a proper medical mask .
I am objecting to the proliferation of full face covering that has contributed significantly to a big increase in urban crime .

This 100%

Essentially, I think anyone covering their face in a public place should be challenged by police

Jeez! The police dont have time to follow up on actual crimes, let alone investigating anyone with a blinking big hat and scarf on!

While I hate seeing young men in balaclavas (usually on their electric scooters speeding down the road). My suspicion is that many people are just using this as an excuse to moan about Muslim women wearing niqab.

and yes, plenty is expressed via the eyes

Any links to those reports?

What a load of shit - people should be able to express their concern without being accused of being racist / Islamophobic etc.

FWIW, I’d ban scooters & e-bikes too (along with face coverings) as they always seem to be used in a menacing way & never for good purposes!

you are entitled to express your opinion and I’m equally as entitled to express my opinion to state mine.

So you think French law is racist?

yes.

Oh dear! So you think France doesn’t have the right to govern itself as a secular nation? You think a democratic (and proudly secular) country should be dictated to as to its position on religion? How is French law racist when it ban all obvious religious symbols?

Do you think Muslim countries are racist when they ban all face covering ( including the niqab )

I mean lots of Muslim majority countries do, for exactly the same reasons we have mentioned here, security and social cohesion. Mind you this is Mumsnet full of middle class white saviours without a clue
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burqa_by_country

Oh; are you Muslim, woman of colour who has first hand experience?

While I can see the point around social cohesion to a limited extent: there is the possibility that banning the niqab in public could result in some women being reluctant to leave the home. But mostly; I think people should be allowed to wear what they want: and trying to force people to wear / not wear a particular garment feels very controlling.

The security issue: as yet I’m not aware of any terrorist attacks being carried out by women in niqab in the UK. They are usually committed by men, wearing jeans. Now I think about it… perhaps it’s jeans that need banning?

Wearing jeans doesn’t make facial identification difficult

The UK needs to follow the example of France and Austria and ban face coverings for everybody except for medical exemptions.

The fact that we allow this shows how weak we are and our weakness is not appreciated by the minority communities that live here. Rather it is despised.

The ban on face coverings in France and Austria do provide for exemptions based on medical need. It is possible to make this work if there was a political will to do it.

Here’s one to start. There are others that you can search for if you are interested.

europeanconservative.com/articles/news-corner/muslim-pupils-harrassing-non-believer-classmates-in-hamburg/

Why is ‘being stopped by police’ to check for a valid medical exemption such a huge problem?

If I got stopped by the police and had a valid exemption for something I would just show them my exemption and carry on with my day.

Haha “have faith in your oppressors”. In a world that is ableist at best - this is not a good look.

Are you saying the police are our oppressors? How is that? They are the police. 🤷‍♀️

I don’t disagree that the world is pretty poorly set up for disabled people but I don’t think we can justify not taking action to improve public disorder, crime rates and social cohesion because you are worried about how it will operate. That is something that needs to be discussed.

You obviously have experience of this, so why don’t you suggest how a medical exemption could work in event of a ban on face coverings? They have these rules in other countries and we have similar rules in some organisations like banks already. Whats not working?

How does race come into banning all religious symbols?

Religion is religion, not a race.

I think making unsubstantiated allegations of racism is not just “expressing your opinion “ it’s an attempt to silence people with views different from yours

It’s not “racist” to think FGM is abhorrent and it’s not “racist” to object to full face covering.