AIBU to think face coverings in public should be banned?

[OpheliaWasntMad]

Should all types of face covering in public be banned? I think they should. Mainly I’m concerned that people in balaclavas and face coverings are shoplifting and stealing phones etc with impunity.
People with balaclavas on marches look threatening and sinister.
Women with niqabs create a barrier between themselves and others as it’s hard to form connections if you can’t see someone’s facial expressions.
I think all face covering should be banned. It contributes to a society that feels more unsafe and divided.

it’s all redundant anyway because the country can’t afford to enforce existing laws like burglaries and assaults, so it’s not like we have the capacity to start criminalising women for what they wear.

I happen to think that the niqab being a bit unfriendly is a very flimsy reason for banning it. We may as well start fining people for not saying hello to strangers on the street, or refusing to wave to their neighbours. yes these are unsociable behaviours but i don’t think they justify getting the police involved!

No @Piggywaspushed - I definitely don’t want head coverings banned. I want face covering banned.
I said from the outset I was referring to public spaces and face covering.

You’re right - on its own the niqab is not a massive issue re public disorder - but it is a divisive and isolating form of dress and there is no religious justification for hiding one’s identity in public.
Given the proliferation of face covering and subsequent increase in anti social behaviour I think face covering should be banned in public places.

Turbans do not cover your face . 🤦‍♀️

Quite famously, turbans only cover one’s hair.

It is not unreasonable to expect people to reveal their identity. Covering up your face = covering up your identity.
It’s sinister and it’s not something that has been common for any race or religion.
Hair covering ( turbans/ hijabs/ wigs/ scarves ) is an entirely different thing … You can cover your hair without concealing your identity.

But I ask again, what about beards and sunglasses and fillers. Do you mean just fabric covering or disguises in a more general sense?
because a man in a big beard is quite disguised.
and hairstyles and clothes also disguise people.

I know what you mean about Balaclavas and they do seem sinister but I don’t think you can ever ban them. One of my neighbours wears a balaclava every day of the year. To my knowledge I’ve never seen him without it. I assume he’s covering something he doesn’t like. He certainly doesn’t look friendly with it but it’s a free country.

They have banned all face coverings in Austria. Austrians are strong people who value their culture.

I agree, OP. I live in a multicultural inner city area and I fear that the niqab may be on the rise.

They've banned face coverings in Austria, so it can be done. But we would need to be a strong country that values it's culture.

Change my word to face then.

My point remains that the countries you list ban coverings in public buildings, not spaces. This would do nothing to resolve your balaclava issue or make women suddenly chatty.

Some Muslim countries have produced adverts implying that it’s ok to sexually assault a woman who isn’t wearing the required face/body coverings.

Women in Iran and other Muslim controlled countries have been beaten to death by the authorities for not wearing the required hair coverings.

Some Muslim preachers in the UK teach that not covering yourself means you are immoral. The rape gangs targeted white girls around the country because they perceived them to be ‘immoral’

It’s hard to argue that it’s really a free choice.

You can't keep repeating that this is about crime OP, whilst including Muslim women in your argument who form a teeny tiny proportion of the criminal population.

There have been several recorded instances of men using niqabs for nefarious or criminal purposes. It helps anyone evade cctv and hampers identification.

However, a ban on all face coverings isn’t targeting any one particular group, despite efforts of yourself and PPs to make it so. It is a fair and necessary measure.

”Last week a group of people wearing pink hats committed a violent, antisocial act. Banning hats will prevent this happening again.”

Can you explain how pink hats help people get away with violent antisocial acts without their identity being recordable for prosecution purposes? If you can and this definitely happened then I’m all for banning pink hats too. But it has never happened has it.

Of course it hasn’t. I was pointing out the absurdity of the suggestion that banning face coverings will prevent violent and antisocial crime. It won’t. People who commit those crimes will simply continue to commit them, with or without face coverings. If they don’t care about laws that prohibit theft and violence do you really think they will be rushing to follow a face covering ban?!

And those who are immunocompromised or wear religious face coverings will have been effectively banned from public life - and those who are determined to commit crimes will continue to do so. Antisocial and violent behaviour will continue as long as the police continue to ignore it, and as long as the punishments imposed on those who do face prosecution remain lenient. More effective policing and harsher punishments are the solution.

Totally agree, unless there is a medical reason no face coverings should be allowed for all the reasons you mention.

Religious face coverings are a choice though! Most Muslims don’t use full face coverings in the west. To the vast majority of the western public they signify oppressive treatment of women and inequality with men. We need to ensure fuller integration with wider society. Hiding a woman’s face based on nothing but misogyny is a barrier to this which needs to be removed

I totally agree OP. Add food delivery cyclists with full black helmets and fully covered faces driving illegal “electric bikes” aka unlicensed and untaxed motorbikes to the mix…

I am re-pasting my response to the OP re “medical reasons”:

“How will “medical exemptions” work?

As someone upthread asks, are we supposed to strip off to show our scars and bald heads before entering Tesco? Do we need to recite our lists of medications before getting on the bus? How will this be enforced? Are bus drivers qualified to do this? Will there be a panel of bus passengers deciding whether we can get on? How will privacy be assured, or do you propose that the public should have access to undressed disabled bodies, and/or our medical history, so everyone knows we have an “exemption”? Will you call the police to question masked cancer patients catching a bus to the hospital so they can prove their “exempt” status?

It’s ridiculous, and as I have already said it is clear discrimination. (Requiring a disabled person to disclose private information to access a service, and not requiring the same disclosure of a non disabled person, is the definition of discrimination.)”

Maybe allow specified medical masks that are available by free prescription? Surely that’s. The obvious sensible option?

Seriously?! And how are the public going to recognise those? And what’s to stop anyone who simply doesn’t fancy catching a cold this week buying one - so we are back to asking people to “prove” their exemption…

(Also highly unlikely to work on safety grounds. There are many shapes of masks to fit different faces - and what fits one person will not fit another etc. There will be too many needed variations to make this feasible.)

Making a group of people wear a label in order to access public life has really sinister undertones.

Please think about what you are suggesting, and think about how you would feel it were you or someone you love on the receiving end. As I have said already on this thread, I have been physically assaulted by a man angry I was wearing a mask on the bus. No one intervened when he started yelling at me, no one intervened when he struck me. I was simply on my way to work, sitting in silence, wearing a mask. The attitudes to disabled people on this thread are awful. (The Islamophobia is also horrid, but plenty of other posters are also calling that out.) If the concern really was about violence and antisocial behaviour the discussion would be about preventing that - not about how people can justify banning some members of society from participating in public life.

I think there’s certainly an argument to support what you say, however, I think it’s clear that some people only give a shit about this issue because it’s viewed as getting one over Muslims. Criminals have worn balaclavas and face coverings since time immemorial.

It’s like the number of card carrying carnivores who suddenly have a special interest in banning halal slaughter. Some will be genuine, a lot will just want to stick it to the Muslims, and don’t give two hoots about animal welfare.

I didn't realise that her dreadful family hid her injuries behind a hijab.

YABU because people who are prepared to break the law by stealing are not going to stop wearing masks because that is against the law.

YABU because when it is very cold, covering your face with a scarf keeps you warm.

YABU because it is none of your business if a woman chooses to cover her face as part of her religion. You are not entitled to a "connection" with anyone.

YABU because it is not only immune compromised people that may want to protect themselves from infection. Maybe the members of their household do, to help keep them safe. Maybe they have a medical condition that means picking up an illness is more serious for them. Maybe they have been waiting a long time for surgery and don't want it cancelled. Maybe they have an upcoming holiday they don't want spoiled. Maybe they just don't want to get ill. None of that is any of your business.

I’m sorry but I’d rather protect my own health than your need to communicate with me - a complete stranger.
I don’t want to communicate with anyone who would put their own want of a conversation above my health thanks.

Another dog whistle racist post.