For thinking it is odd for trans men to give birth

[Overthinkingotter]

Talked to friend today and got on subject of trans men having babies. I said that, imo, being pregnant/giving birth is the last thing I’d want to do as a trans man as surely the process of pregnancy would be incredibly triggering for someone with gender dysphoriac? I the said that, if I were a trans man who wanted a baby, I’d most likely find an alternative way rather than carrying the baby myself.

I thought this was quite a mild comment, but fried reacted as if I had said something quite offensive/bigoted.
Is my view really so unreasonable/extreme?

Hospital HR have stats on employees. Out of 16k staff, we have two trans women and both are in admin roles.

But you're not addressing the point.

If a woman doesn't consent to a man doing a gynaecological examination, you can't fob her off with 'oh it's a low probability'. You have to ensure there is full disclosure.

I would have thought that was obvious.

I’ve never had a healthcare professional declare their sex to me.

Why do you think everything's about your experience?

If a woman requests a female practitioner for an intimate care procedure then she should be 100% guaranteed that. No question.

I find it extraordinary that anyone would suggest otherwise

I agree with you.

Saying you identify as a man when giving birth is self-indulgence at its worst.

However, I've seen the pp's comment about her husband identifying as a woman to claim maternity leave - that's a great idea. Maybe if more men did that, employers would offer better parental/paternity leave.

No, you know several women who want to be known as men yet still utilised their biological sex to create a human being and give birth to it all while maintaining some grand delusion that they are in fact a man.

Be like milking an almond for oat milk really.

All my smears have been done by biologically female nurses.

But when I was having my son, the forceps delivery was carried out by a male doctor. When you need to get a baby out you don't care about the sex (or the gender identity come to that) of the person getting your baby safely out of you.

However, when you are having an elective procedure like a smear, you can be more fussy and I wouldn't want a transwoman doing it.

Well of course.

The point is about consent and how it cannot be overridden on the grounds of 'gender'

Well, apparently, according to mumsnet they are biological women and should be basking in all the glory of their womanly feats because that’s what real women should do. 🙄

I think if you want a baby, unless you are rich and believe in surrogacy (also a big MN no no!), there are few other options. I have several trans friends who have had children, some of them biological, some of them not. I don’t think being a man from a gender standpoint means you have less desire to be a parent and you work with what you have, even if it’s very difficult psychologically.

Yeah that's not how it works at all. Otherwise all lesbians would be getting a year off each! Unless you take shared parental leave (which is open to hetro couples too) most adoption leave/ parental leave has one identified main parent.

you people are SO transphobic it's horrifying. what happened to live & let live? if it doesn't affect you or harm others, why do you even care?

trans men can get raped, just like anyone in the world ever. you people are awful.

Change the language to biological female and it doesn’t sound crazy at all.

They can only get pregnant because they’re women. That’s the point of the discussion.

Who said transmen couldn't get raped? And why is that relevant to
the discussion?

No one is denying that TIF are as vulnerable to sexual violence as any other woman. What this thread is discussing is why someone who has felt so strongly that they are male not female that they have possibly had a double mastectomy to get rid of their breasts, are likely to have been taking testosterone to grow facial and body hair and deepen their voice and develop a more masculine body shape ; should suddenly decide to stop the testosterone, (hoping it is not still in their body in quantities not good for a developing foetus), take female hormones to restart a menstrual cycle they have previously found challenging, go through insemination and then a 40 week pregnancy while their body grow and births a baby. It is the most female act you can put your body through . It just seems a very strange decision and raises issues about feelings versus biology that need examining.

Biological men can get raped too. I am failing to see your point?

Indeed!

People's complex feelings about their bodies are their own business, totally agree.

But what this example illustrates is how one lie leads to another lie and ultimately to total nonsense.

If we insist that women can become men (the first lie), then that leads to the lie that men can become pregnant and then that to the person giving birth being a 'father', and omg you are a total bigot if you don't go along with it all.

Whereas if we stick to the truth in the first place, all this nonsense disappears.

Only women give birth. That includes women who present in more traditionally masculine ways. That includes women who may have dysphoric feelings about their bodies.

She doesn't even have a problem with receiving gynaecological care from a man. She said she is fine with men or women. She just has a problem with trans women.

I think the implication was that she didn't want to be told she was getting care from a woman, only to find out it was actually a 'transwoman'

Transmen. Not men, transmen.

Well, quite.

Thank you - spot on!

Poor kids. 🤷‍♀️