For thinking it is odd for trans men to give birth

[Overthinkingotter]

Talked to friend today and got on subject of trans men having babies. I said that, imo, being pregnant/giving birth is the last thing I’d want to do as a trans man as surely the process of pregnancy would be incredibly triggering for someone with gender dysphoriac? I the said that, if I were a trans man who wanted a baby, I’d most likely find an alternative way rather than carrying the baby myself.

I thought this was quite a mild comment, but fried reacted as if I had said something quite offensive/bigoted.
Is my view really so unreasonable/extreme?

Yeh I understand what you are saying completely. I watched that “seahorse” documentary and I have to say I found the person in it incredibly irritating and attention seeking

That was obvious. But she does and has consented to gynaecological treatment from a man, you were talking as if she wouldn't.

Yes but not a transwoman or transman. So I am refusing screening. I don’t consent to be seen by someone who is clearly confused about biology.

To me it does seem a bit hard to understand a trans man wanting to gestate and give birth - something which is by definition incongruent with his gender identity, however to each their own.

I do though think that the number of individuals this describes must be so few that it is completely unnecessary and dystopian to erase female gendered terminology from discussion in preference of terms like "chest feeding" or "birthing person".

Women who pretend to be men, apologies.

This is a chat forum and I think people talking about fictional situations rather than lived reality is really dangerous and creating misplaced anger. So yes, I’m sharing my lived experience and asking for evidence base for claims being made. I’m very concerned about the trans movement but getting upset about something that might happen seems unnecessary. If you go to have a smear and are uncomfortable just say you’re not happy to go through with it that day. Next time book a different person rather than never going because there’s a small chance they might be trans.

I think your friend is probably one of those people who struggle to see the difference between not draping yourself in a rainbow flag and giving a standing ovation everytime a person who identifies as trans does whatever they feel like doing, and 'transphobia'.

I’m wondering if people think trans patients should also have the option/right to have only trans positive clinicians taking care of them?

Or do we trust clinicians to be professional with all their patients?

👏🏼👏🏼

Is that not just a woman giving birth.

Well no. The bottom line is do you think women who request female only intimate care should be respected in their request or not? It's as simple as that.

It's not really a hypothetical or fictional situation though. In Scotland recently a male doctor stated on record during a tribunal that he would present himself to intimately examine a female patient who had already specified that she only consented to same sex HCP for intimate care. He added that he would expect his colleagues to support him even direct him to that patient, and that if the female patient rejected him he would consider her transphobic.

This is an abuse of his position, and imo an admission that he would sexually assault a female patient if given the opportunity.

The doctor who admitted to that is Beth (Theodore) Upton, in the Sandie Peggie vs Beth Upton and NHS Fife tribunal. He's not the first male HCP who would do something like this, there have been other male HCP who have actually presented themselves when a female patient has requested same sex care for intimate procedures.

We all know about fight, flight, freeze, fawn responses so we know that some women expecting a same sex intimate examination and having this man turn up will be unable to say stop at that point. A sexual assault or rape victim could be retraumatised by being confronted by an unexpected man when they are prepared for a same sex HCP.

Also "getting upset about things that might happen"? Should we just do away with safeguarding? It's all about "getting upset about things that might happen" after all.

But LLL are leading the way in helping trans people breastfeed! So er…. You calling them a fringe group seems to be saying you don’t think trans people should be helped to breastfeed. Is that correct? And no, if you have a mastectomy you cannot breastfeed. Seriously, do your research lol

You’re not wrong, but I’d like to think that, if I were a trans man who made this decision, I’d address the elephant in the room at the very least and also not take any offence along the way about misgendering/being legally called ‘the mother’ etc. Surely the baby is the most important thing, rather than all the politics and so on.

I'm hearing the 'you people are awful' part in a Dick Emery voice which is somehow apt as he was in drag when he said it.

I agree 100%, if you want to learn about the psychology and politics of this, head over to the sex and gender board and have a lurk. Comment if you're brave enough. They're formidable. Lol.

Yes. Why not? If that would make a trans person more comfortable, I see no problem with it.

Seriously?

I agree. I’m fine with both male and female health professionals. But given the high rate of sexual offending by trans-identifying men, I would not want any intimate treatment by a transwoman.

Yes. It reminded me of Dick Emery. Suppose I'm revealing I'm old here. Though I don't think it was the exact thing he said as Mandy one of his characters: "You are awful but I like it" (?)
Anyway don't want to drag this thread to, er, drag.

What is the percentage of trans women?

What percentage of trans women are HCPs?

What percentage of trans women who are HCPs specifically work in a role that involves giving smear tests and mammograms?

We are talking tiny, tiny, numbers. If you'd risk not having an early diagnosis for what must be something like a 0.05% chance or something, then your life must not be very precious to you.

What is your source for this?

So if I had a bowl of 400 chocolates, and told you a tiny percentage were poisonous, would you eat one? If not, why not? It’s only a tiny percentage after all

if you're a trans man in a relationship with a cis man

you're a female in a heterosexual relationship. HTH

Using a metaphor that compared Trans to poisoned sweets… ?