For thinking it is odd for trans men to give birth

[Overthinkingotter]

Talked to friend today and got on subject of trans men having babies. I said that, imo, being pregnant/giving birth is the last thing I’d want to do as a trans man as surely the process of pregnancy would be incredibly triggering for someone with gender dysphoriac? I the said that, if I were a trans man who wanted a baby, I’d most likely find an alternative way rather than carrying the baby myself.

I thought this was quite a mild comment, but fried reacted as if I had said something quite offensive/bigoted.
Is my view really so unreasonable/extreme?

Well that's pretty important because if she hasn't yet requested a same sex HCP, then she didn't have that request dishonoured when the nurse initially entered the room.

The rest of your point goes back to what I said about not having a smear test based on the remote chance the HCP assigned to you (probably at your local GP) will be a trans woman.

That’s your call. I don’t have an issue with mixed care for many things, as long as people have the right to specify if they want to.

Personally I want medical staff who understand the most basic level of biology (TM or TW).

But by being inclusive to (apparently ) a tiny minority of people, the NHS is risking lives. What about women who can’t be seen by a man for religious reasons? Or trauma? Are they supposed to just ignore the risk?

And people saying to just refuse it on the day - then you get labelled a transphobe who has committed ‘literal violence’ because you don’t want someone who thinks gender is more important than bio reality poking around.

if they say they only provide female staff to provide certain services, then they should at least do exactly that.

@LiviaDrusillaAugusta well here in Scotland the SNP and police idea is that woman should “re-frame their trauma” I believe? You know forget what actually happened to them to play a part in other people’s delusions… remember a hurty feel for someone not doing so is of course much more severe than a violent sexual assault to a mere actual female… like the old school females that is..

But in the case of mammograms the invitation letter says the procedure will be performed by a woman, as do most smear tests. So requesting female only doesn’t help because they class trans women as women.

if I break my arm and it’s treated by someone who is trans, that’s fine.

But anyone who thinks you can change sex should be barred from performing any sex-specific care because they obviously don’t know what the two sexes are.

I asked for a guarantee that I wouldn’t be dealing with a TW and the person on the phone got rather arsey.

Ah yes - those silly ladies being sensitive…

It’s terrifying, isn’t it. Was it in Scotland that they appointed a TW to be in charge of rape crisis? They really hate women and girls

Thats a grim gotcha…. (Shudder)
”we you didnt actually say you didn’t want to be violated like that?… too bad how sad”. ?!

Not everyone would see a male as a violation.

"So requesting female only doesn’t help because they class trans women as women."

Number of trans people : small
Number of trans women : smaller
Number of trans women who are HCPs : tiny
Number of trans women who are HCPs and provide smear tests/mammograms: miniscule

Correct but you understand that some people would? People who have experienced trauma or have religious reasons?

Yes. But that doesn't mean that you automatically offer same sex care. It does mean that you honour the request when it is made.

They didn't make a mistake by simply having a trans nurse and that nurse providing care to someone who hadnt said they wanted same sex care.

A man couldn't accuse a hospital of violating his right to same sex care just because a female nurse was assigned to him before he made any such request.

The important part actually is…
Number of trans identified males who place their patients request and respect this over their self AGP need to be validated?
as most threads that I read on this is grand sum of zero. They all place their needs and wants first, and will stop patients receiving required care if they can as punishment for being challenged.

So? It’s the fact they claim something will be done by a woman when they actually mean ‘a woman or some dude who pretends to be a woman and thus either has a fetish or knows jack all about the difference between men and women’.

I don't know what you mean. I think you've missed some punctuation.

Worse!

The person who said rape victims should "reframe their trauma" so men could sit in on therapy sessions where women were sometimes relating what happened to them, was the CEO of Rape Crisis Centre - a trans identified male (unsurprisingly enough) named Mirdul Wadhwa.

The chances of it being done by a male, specifically a TW, is tiny because there aren't very many in that role. So it's a theoretical fear that cannot be currently realised simply because there arent enough qualified HCPs who are TW and who perform STs/MMgs for it to be a relevant risk to all women. And the risk i am talking about is JUST the HCP being a TW, not them being a TW and predatory. That's an even smaller risk.

Really, how sad for you, but lovely piece of squirrel..
The important part actually is: How many trans identified males will accept that there will be woman who don’t want them to provide a level of intimate care/treatment?
Is that clear enough @GlovedhandsCecilia ?

It seems pretty clear to me.

But the dismissal of the wants or needs of women is all too common sadly. The priority is given to these delusional men and women who think ‘gender’ is what matters.

Of course, amongst all the ‘it hardly ever happens’ arguments are the rapists who suddenly identify as women to go to a female prison.

Generally no man pretending to be a woman is doing so because he actually likes and respects women.

So what? The point is that if you are placed in the position of a TW providing that, you don’t just get to say ‘oh sorry, I need to see an actual woman (or even a man who knows what a woman is’). They think being born with a penis can still mean you are female. I would prefer not to have someone that deluded messing with my bits as I don’t believe they have the competence.

Men use the trans issue for many things and it turns out the world humours them.

So you're asking me to guess how many of the say, 0.05% of HCPs who are TW performing mammogram and smear tests would be okay with a woman declining their care due to their trans identity?

I think 3/5 of the 0.05% of TW HCPs performing these procedures would handle it professionally.

My experience of declining care from white HCPs says otherwise. You do get to say that and your request is honoured. You might have to wait longer for an appointment. This is with the NHS. Private hospitals have different rules.

Though I will say that I just ask for what I want rather than the kind of thing you have put here. That would be like me banging on about White supermacy and things like that rather than just asking for a Black HCP.

So you are okay to roll the dice? Good for you. Shame you may not have the imagination to realise it’s not the same for everyone.

It’s basic competence. Even if I concede that most TW believe people can change sex, the other reasons are that they are deluded (feel like a woman (whatever that means), have a fetish, or they are predatory.

I don’t want someone who has a basic misunderstanding of the human body (let alone someone who has an ulterior motive) providing intimate tests.

Not sure what’s so difficult to understand about that.

Yes because the dice has about a million sides and I am only avoiding one number.

I have no trouble understanding why you might decline care from a trans HCP who has come to provide you care. I find it hard to see avoiding a smear test due to the tiny chance that the HCP might be a TW as anything but irrational.

The point that you are obstinately refusing to acknowledge is that there shouldn't even be the remotest possibility in the first place of this happening.

In a sane universe, if a woman requests single sex intimate care, she should not have to even consider the possibility that a male HCP might show up instead of a female HCP.

Currently we are not in a sane universe so there is a possibility that if a woman requests single sex intimate care a male HCP might show up instead of a female HCP. It has already happened, and a trans identifying male doctor has admitted in tribunal he would present himself to a female patient who had requested same sex care, so really not that remote a chance considering that's two out of what you say is such a miniscule number of trans identifying male HCPs.

Who cares how remote a possibility that is? The fact that it's possibility at all is the issue.

But you know that, and apparently as far as you're concerned women don't really matter when there's men to consider so...

You are missing the point. Actually the race issue doesn’t apply. The only reason you would insist on a clinician of a certain colour is bigotry as there is no reason to think a white person is better or worse than any other ethnicity at providing the service.

The NHS claims certain services are provided to women by women. So you can’t say ‘I want a woman’ as they already claim that. You phone them and say ‘I don’t want a TW’ and they say ‘oh can’t guarantee that’ and then change their tone to make it clear that they think you are an asshole.

I know this to be true because I have had that conversation before my first scheduled mammogram.

If you then get a TM, you have to run the gauntlet of hurty words and ‘literal violence’ if you protest.

It doesn’t matter what the odds are.