For thinking it is odd for trans men to give birth

[Overthinkingotter]

Talked to friend today and got on subject of trans men having babies. I said that, imo, being pregnant/giving birth is the last thing I’d want to do as a trans man as surely the process of pregnancy would be incredibly triggering for someone with gender dysphoriac? I the said that, if I were a trans man who wanted a baby, I’d most likely find an alternative way rather than carrying the baby myself.

I thought this was quite a mild comment, but fried reacted as if I had said something quite offensive/bigoted.
Is my view really so unreasonable/extreme?

Alcohol isnt prescribed by doctors to treat any mental health condition. Testosterone and SSRIs are.

No testosterone is not being prescribed here for mental health. It's being prescribed for 'gender affirming care'

A lot of later abortions are performed on women who have needed to continue with medication/treatment and as a consequence the baby hasn't had functioning kidneys/heart. I know personally of a woman who has epilepsy and she had to just stop the most effective medication for her. They then had to weigh up the risk of seizures compared with enough medication to stop the seizures. They could repair the kidneys of one of her children, after birth, she had three children under this proticol. These decisions are being made daily, by people. We can have as many opinions as we want, but it isn't influencing anything. Some doctors do state that a woman absolutely shouldn't get pregnant under some circumstances. Some women are sectioned/under care orders during pregnancy. As the pp said, the testosterone being taken isn't physically life saving, so should be stopped. I'm on the fence because I had to have intervention when I had secondary infertility, so have sympathy with anyone, with barriers, wanting children. However the transman I am close to and the transpeople I know think these things are driven by MRA, they pounce on vulnerable people and generally aren't genuine.

Re poison, it's the dose that makes it dangerous. Which gave rise to the question "pick your poison" which can be alcohol, unpasturised products, fungi etc.

It's being used to treat dysmorphia. Do you not think that trans identified peoole essentially have a mental illness?

Mental health drugs are not physically life saving. They just stabilise people to the point that they won't engage in life threatening risky behaviour and/or self harm. The evidence that says they do this well is patchy. Same as gender affirming care as you call it.

The vast majority do not have an diagnosis or treatment plan for dysmorphia.

I think trans identification can potentially be many things.

There is zero actual evidence that 'gender affirming care' is stabilising in this way.

There certainly isn't zero. It is patchy with research leaning either way. Same as with SSRIs.

I don't expect everyone to feel the same as me. So if I was a trans man I might want a child or I might not, actual trans men will have their own feelings but it isn't something I'd be worrying about. Seems an odd thing to be discussing.

No, there is genuinely zero and equally of indications it might do the opposite

I don’t care too much about it but I don’t personally believe that men give birth, women do, regardless of what they call themselves.

No there isn't zero. There may be zero that you accept to be valid research because you are defensive about the issue, but that doesn't equate to zero in real terms. That's just cognitive dissonance or something.

Men dont give birth so that should be automatically taken away when transitioning. The world's gone mad

I've just gone for a look to remind myself, the MN thread I found said NHS but the article I just found that looks familiar does say it was the Princess Grace.

So I might have been wrong about the NHS bit, but the rest which I'd argue was the most important bit, trans identifying male HCP presents himself to female patient who requested same sex intimate healthcare, is still correct.

I'm not sure what your point is unless it was to have a small pyrrhic victory over the NHS or private hospital mistake.

You are not a serious poster.

Arguing and attempting to minimise the chances of something that has already happened, happening.

Ignoring the actual points made and mangling a very straightforward analogy.

Quibbling over NHS vs private hospital.

Testosterone is not prescribed for mental health care, it is not an anti-depressant.

I don’t imagine many women would avoid going for a smear test based on the possibility of a trans-woman being the HCP providing the care, but I can’t imagine many women would stay and let the HCP do the procedure if it then turned out to be the case.

That's a different story, but actually I think someone said they do/would and that is where this conversation started.

They're aren't men not any sort of men they're women so they can give birth. if that punctures their illusion there on them. i only feel sorry for the children born into such madness.

Private hospitals, like private schools, have more scope to choose their customers. It isnt the same as a state institution refusing care based on personal preferences or beliefs.

Ultimately I don’t trust a clinician who doesn’t understand biology.

Not really.

It's just another shoehorn in of the women-great / men-bad mindset that's often prevalent here.

I dont really know where I stand on the trans debate, except that the few I know are quite different from each other.

Which is why I hate grouping, preferring to see each person as a unique individual

So? I genuinely don't care if the hospital had the "scope to choose their customers".

The point is that a female patient requested a same sex HCP for her intimate examination, a male trans identifying nurse was provided/showed up to do said intimate examination.

The point is that women are self excluding because there is a chance that this might happen to them. They shouldn't have to.

You are set on focusing on the wrong thing entirely, it's clear to me that women don't actually matter to you very much.

Like I said I don't think you are actually a serious poster, you're clearly intelligent enough to understand the issue and are deliberately choosing to misrepresent, gloss over things and argue about the not important bits.

I don't know, maybe it's just me that thinks it's an extremely misogynistic take on a hospital who does this.

Feminists: "This is shocking, women are self excluding from health care because of things like this:"

'Hospital withdraws possibly lifesaving care from woman who refused to allow a male HCP to put his fingers inside her against her prior explicitly stated consent.'

Misogynists: "Oh well, private hospitals can choose their sexual assault victims customers however they want you know!"

It's a bit... rape-y isn't it.

Hmm I didnt read the timeline that way.

"Former solicitor Teresa this week claimed she almost died when the private hospital involved in her care, The Princess Grace Hospital in London, cancelled an essential operation because, after the incident with the nurse entering her room, she had demanded same-sex care — a right enshrined by law. ‘I am interested in the law in this area,’ she stresse"

So she was in for an op, a trans nurse came in the room. She spotted that right away and asked for same sex care after this occurred. Then her op was cancelled.

Point being, the way this reads, she didnt ask for same sex care and then was assigned a trans nurse.

@LondonLady1980

"Self excluding from healthcare"

From what I can remember of it there was a lot more to it than that.

IIRC The trans identified male nurse deliberately entered the room after the woman had requested same sex HCPs. I'm not spending my Saturday afternoon refamiliarizing myself with all the articles I can find on it, I'm away out!

The point is that women are self excluding because some male trans identifying HCPs can, have, and (self admittedly) would present themselves to a female patient who had requested single sex intimate care. This should not happen, if a woman requests single sex intimate care she should only see female HCPs for that health care need.

The self excluding women are not the problem. Hospitals and some trans identifying male HCPs lying and expecting women to comply is the problem.

It's one of the rules of misogyny isn't it? Male actions that harm women are not the problem, it's the women's reaction to harmful male actions that's the real problem.