Is MN feeding unhealthy attitudes towards men?

[Grtscott]

Some threads I've read this morning have helped me to realise that my thinking about men has changed since joining MN. And not in a good way.

There's an undertone that men need to do things the woman's way, or it's wrong. That men should be grateful for any sex that women are willing to give in a long term relationship, even if that peters out to no sex at all.

Men are seen to be babies who can't do anything for themselves, and need to have someone pre plan and organise their lives, but god forbid they fall into the pattern of behaviour of expecting their female partner to do these things for them, as that's what they've always done.

This thinking is observable to a greater or lesser extent across the boards.

I've also recognised where this thinking has affected the way I think about my wonderful man, and sometimes in things I've said to him or actions towards him. I need to watch this in future.

I'm concerned that the general thinking about men on this website can't be good for society if this is the way women think, and are encouraged to think by others.

If women treat men this way collectively and have low expectations around them, no wonder the bar is getting lower.

Apart from obvious jokes, I can think of only one LTB that was wide of the mark.

@Bolonese I've honestly never read any hate speech against men on Mumsnet.... I've been here a long time.... Maybe the boards in not on? Derogatory terms for all men? Never seen them. Name calling of a particular man around certain behaviours... absolutely

Also I cannot imagine a website making me reassess my partner.

If I was it would likely suggest there was an issue I had been, ignoring until that point.

Reddit gives a more balanced view?

Some subreddits are great it really depends which ones you use. There's a lot of misogyny there, horrific porn subreddits allowed to stay up, red pill subreddits etc There's also a lot more extreme anti-male rhetoric on some subs than you'd find on MN.

I disagree, I've changed emails/usernames many times over the years but mumsnet has always been somewhere I came to ask for opinion. It helped me realise how badly my stbxh treated me. I've read many threads on here of women who've experienced similar or worse so I'd say it's opened my eyes to the scale of the issue with men tbh, and to pretend there isn't an issue is no longer an option. They're generally more selfish than women as a minimum.

I think in previous generations women weren't able to communicate in such wide communities that we now have online. I will admit that I will forever be suspicious of men - I doubt I would ever trust one again but it's been such a comfort to have so many women tell me that I'm not crazy, he is abusive etc. Where else can you get that support anonymously and accessibly?

It makes me happy when I see young women refusing to accept what I did and valuing themselves. I hope this decentering of men will continue.

What are you talking about? You haven’t managed to call anyone out. You had a weak, half arsed point and as that poster correctly pointed out, you’ve stretched a couple of posts to fit the whole site.

Get yourself over to the relationship boards, have a read of what some of those women are going through and then ask yourself if it’s misandry you’re seeing, or whether it’s women who are encouraging other women not to accept crap treatment.

Of course women can be terrible partners as well. Nobody is disputing that. But as this is a site that has a majority of female posters, unlike real life, then you won’t see that reflected in the majority of posts. So of course it doesn’t reflect real life. I don’t understand why anyone thinks it would.

I know there is a negative attitude towards men on here @Grtscott

But I really, REALLY don't care.

Mumsnet is a wonderful outlet to vent your spleen, about all the awful, negative things about men and how much they piss us off!

Nothing 'unhealthy' about the attitudes towards men on here. Many of them are justified.

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Kind of agree OP. There are good men out there. Some (not all) posters seem to expect to be worshipped by the man, all take take take whilst contributing far less (HE needs a better job so WE can have more money, or outrage that an affair has been discovered then adding "we haven't been intimate for 4 years" etc)

Yes Reddit has a whole board of women who post saying they’ll do anything for money and men offering and suggesting all kinds of disgusting and depraved things.
it is vile.
mumsnet is very middle class British. Reddit does have a much wider range of voices and perspectives though

Top post.

I think the main point is to advice wives not to direct hate at the OW when this obscures the H's responsibility. The OW did not seduce him. He participated enthusiastically and freely. I've seen a wife be praised by multiple posters about her cheating H, in relation to why she is staying with him, ' Why should he be punished for one mistake' whereas the OW was ' not fit to lick my boots.'. You can understand the psychological motivation for this warped thinking from a wife who needs to persuade herself why she is justified with staying with a man who betrayed her love and trust, but its not right and its not healthy if its used to keep you in a marriage you are best out of.

At the end of they day, the OW does not really owe you anything. She is not making your H cheat. He is. His responsibility was not to pursue the OW or not to respond to her early interest. The fact of there being unfaithfulness in the marriage is entirely on him.

The Rules of Misogyny
1. Women are responsible for what men do.
2. Women saying no to men is a hate crime.
3. Women speaking for themselves are exclusionary and selfish.
4. Women’s opinions are violence against men, thus male violence against women is justified.
5. Women and Feminism must be useful to men or they are worthless.
6. Women who go around being female AT men by menstruating and breastfeeding babies deserve punishment.
7. Women should always be grateful to men for everything.
8. Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.
9. Men always know the “real reasons” for everything women do and say.
10. The worst thing about male violence is that it makes men look bad.
11. Whatever women suffer from, it is worse when it happens to men.
12. Women’s ability to recognize male behavior patterns is misandry.
13. Angry women are crazy. Angry men have trouble expressing themselves.
14. Women have all the rights they need: The right to remain silent.
15. Men are the default human. Women are strange subhuman others.
16. Everyone owns and controls women’s bodies except the women themselves.

There are three things above all others that women are not allowed to do - stand up for their own interests, question how things are or tell their own truth.

In a world where woman are told every day of their lives they are there to serve everyone else, to defer and be kind and to put the needs of others before their own it's some how radical to say "fuck this shit, it harms me and my interests and I'm worth more than being a doormat".

It's bloody depressing to think that not being willing to tolerate misogyny and merely look after ourselves on our own terms and be able to advocate for ourselves is not acceptable.

It is THE ACTUAL PROBLEM that women are not seen as worthy of this as a minimum.

The last sentence is easy enough. Most want a good partner as good partnership makes life easier. They just struggle to find one.

Some people really can't stand it when women get together and talk openly about men.🤨

YABU @Grtscott . If what you read is causing you to identify problematic behaviour in your own relationship that's a good thing. If certain boards make you feel uncomfortable you don't have to click. You can stick to the wanking threads on the Sex Topic instead.🤷‍♀️

Somewhat often I see men being criticised for things that probably lots of women do and nobody minds. Or at least wouldn't be viewed as harshly if a woman was doing it.

Possibly more often we have women coming on here who are in relationships with obviously awful men and don't seem to fully realise it. Or they've just started to realise it but if you read the post then a lot of the clues have been there from the start and they somehow haven't noticed. So overall I think I would be encouraging women to be more critical of men, not less!

Excellent post.

I think sometimes the words used towards the DH/male DP are strong but it comes from frustration that the OP needs to straighten her metaphorical backbone and stand up to him because she's thought up until now that it's normal that she does all the child-related admin when they both work full-time or is going into debt to pay her "half" of the bills on maternity leave.

If one feels they are projecting this behaviour onto men they know without cause it's probably time for a break.

Thank you,

I agree with you, but it’s very much an attitude you will get ridiculed for on here and told you are a pick me girl or a handmaiden
no point trying to argue against it, I find it really regressive, but leave everyone to their own views, they aren’t my experience

I've been on Mumsnet on and off for a long time, perhaps this is less prevalent now. I can remember a time when it felt like the default response to any post and it was a bit of a running joke on here.

Yes sometimes.

I agree, OP. There are some staggeringly demanding and needy women out there (and of course some staggeringly demanding and needy men, too). Neither sex has the monopoly on being awful human beings. However, the effect on me has been to improve my view of men, possibly as a reaction to the many OTT comments I read here.

Nah you're wrong, OP, men are shit ; my partner is lovely and I can still identify many of issues raised by women on these boards - complacency with some expected gender roles, at times an inability to see the disparity and unfair treatment between men and women and I could go on...

Yes and no - I do think there are some real man haters on here who think we should all leave someone at the drop of a hat - however on the other hand I do think there are a great many men, possibly close to a majority who think kids and housework are women’s work,their job is way more important, sex is an entitlement as is watching hard core sleaze and women need to just accept that’s the case -

'I think in previous generations women weren't able to communicate in such wide communities that we now have online. I will admit that I will forever be suspicious of men - I doubt I would ever trust one again but it's been such a comfort to have so many women tell me that I'm not crazy, he is abusive etc. Where else can you get that support anonymously and accessibly?'

• this bit : I think women have always advised each other and warned about bad men but there was more pressure to stay in the past..

I agree anonymity can be an advantage but I would caution that one should remember people don't tend to post if things are going well, which skews things somewhat, and posts may be made up by trolls in some cases.

I'm glad you were able to get good advice and you're out of that horrible situation. 💐

That last example is the one that irks me the most. There's been so many threads I've read on MN which have this theme of "I've chosen for our marriage to be sexless, how dare he choose to discuss opening up our marriage." And other women supporting that view.

It's what I read between the lines of the "Would he really be that stupid?" thread, although the poster hasn't said that directly.

And several posters ignoring that the OP on that thread hasn't got the right to tell XH not to date.

I completely agree that the OP needs to take control of the situation and end things herself rather than be his puppet, but I'm thinking there's a few things the OP hasn't said as she understandably is wanting others to be as cross at him as she is.