Is MN feeding unhealthy attitudes towards men?

[Grtscott]

Some threads I've read this morning have helped me to realise that my thinking about men has changed since joining MN. And not in a good way.

There's an undertone that men need to do things the woman's way, or it's wrong. That men should be grateful for any sex that women are willing to give in a long term relationship, even if that peters out to no sex at all.

Men are seen to be babies who can't do anything for themselves, and need to have someone pre plan and organise their lives, but god forbid they fall into the pattern of behaviour of expecting their female partner to do these things for them, as that's what they've always done.

This thinking is observable to a greater or lesser extent across the boards.

I've also recognised where this thinking has affected the way I think about my wonderful man, and sometimes in things I've said to him or actions towards him. I need to watch this in future.

I'm concerned that the general thinking about men on this website can't be good for society if this is the way women think, and are encouraged to think by others.

If women treat men this way collectively and have low expectations around them, no wonder the bar is getting lower.

I often read out posts to DH and chat through random things with him. He is always as horrified about the posters bad experiences as I am. I doubt if he responded it would be much different to many of the women posters on here. Perhaps that is because he grew up with a very abusive father who displayed every form of abusive behaviour out there towards his mother who continued to love him to the end of her life.

My DH is perhaps not as willfully blind as others to how much damage these behaviours cause to women and children because he lived it first hand.

I loved your posts on that thread!

I agree with you entirely that man was out of order and needed calling out.

This thread is more about the man who does a washing load to ensure he has the items clean he wants cleaned by a deadline. He rarely does the washing because his partner always insists she has to do it. He sees she hasn't got time to do the washing before the deadline, so he does it himself. He puts in some of her items to make up the load. He accidentally shrinks her jumper.

She posts on here that he shrunk her jumper, without all the rest of the story. Posters immediately rally the cry of LTB, set your bar higher.

Women have always treated the men that can't carry their own weight in a relationship as helpless babies. I think it's the acceptability of an adult behaving like a dependent that's changed. I don't think anyone (male or female) has the time to tolerate 'dead weight' when the majority of.people are.living stressful, overstuffed faces paced lives trying to.tick every box.

The best role model children have is the environment they grow up in and where do children learn most about relationships themselves? From their parents

Have children with a useless father why on earth keep on repeating it?

Yes this can be called whatever label you want to put on it but is sperm more important than children growing in the best environment as possible?

Sure use men as a bank and endlessly complain about them but needs of children, even un comceived ones should come first

And if they are so bad why are women so desperate to date and keep one?

My DH is one of the good ones too but he doesn’t take this debate personally. He agrees!

is this your first day on the internet? go on Reddit. Or X. Or tiktok. Or YouTube. Or Facebook.

A german football club are working in partnership with a cosmetics company (whose european headquarters are in their city) to stamp out sexualised abuse of women and so on at their matches. Giving men ideas about how to put a stop to it there and then, get the woman out of that situation, and make it clear to the man that it must stop.

And the comments - from men in about 99.9% of replies - are vile. Truly awful.

The term man child was definitely around before Mumsnet. There are plenty of them in real life, if you haven't had to deal with any, then that's wonderful. I don't dislike men, but I can definitely see the differences. There's very few women who get through adult life unable to cook or clean properly etc, it seems much more common with men. Is it because they're incapable of learning to do normal adult tasks, nope.
I have had long term relationships with men who ask what's for dinner every night, don't help with DIY or gardening, contribute less to the household in almost every way, reliant on girlfriend or family for everything. I am now in a relationship with a lovely man, competent in normal adult tasks, i feel lucky.
Some men seem stuck in the attitude of the 1950s that they should be able to go to work, come home and do next to nothing. Except times have moved on and if they are now in a relationship with a woman who also goes out to work, they need to share the domestic load, the reason why you see so many complaints on the posts on here, is that it's not uncommon for men to expect women to pick up all the domestic labour and also, very few people will post to say their partner is wonderful

Come on,this is a ridiculous comment.. over the last year I've read loads of political threads on here , especially on the Politics and FWR boards but also others. There' been a lot on Iran, Ukraine, Starmer, etc. And no, not all relating it back to personal life.

Are you just not reading these threads? It also depends which boards you're using. If you read Politics, News and FWR you'll find a lot.

A recent thread on the sex board about a husband masturbating had very reasonable responses. They considered the man's perspective as well as the woman's. That thread would have been torn apart on Relationships, due to a husband suggesting his wife participate in a sexual act with him. I've seen that happen before

@Grtscott. But it wasn't posted so it didn't happen.

It. Is. All. In.Your. Head.

Mumsnet saved my sanity. I had no idea coercive control was a thing or spousal rape. Unfortunately I was a victim of them.

Would he really be that stupid to send an anniversary card obviously ordered for another women when we've only been split up a couple of months and he's implying that he might want to get back together?

That thread?

And you think she's being unreasonable?

Well women (and men) who are straight are wired to want companionship from the opposite sex, even if they don't usually like the ones they meet in real life. And there's also the need for children, that you mention.

It would be lovely to create and protect spaces where women don't have to manage or accommodate male expectations.
It would be great to see men taking responsibility for their own emotional regulation, purpose, and behaviour without demanding women's emotional labour or validation as default, .e.g expecting women to be their audience and accommodate them when they're having difficult feelings.
Both sexes acknowledging real average differences in strengths, tendencies, and vulnerabilities (physical, psychological, statistical) without using them to justify superiority or victimhood.

I'm forced to suppose that OP and her/his supporters don't spend much time around normal women having normal women's chats.

Much of what you read on Mumsnet is, in fact, normal women's chat. Like it or not, nobody's pushing a narrative of useless or unpleasant husbands - they simply exist, so women talk about them.

Absolutely not.

I need to use X for my work. I cannot tell you the amount of toxic abuse I get. Some from anon acs, but also from men under their real names because there are no consequences and it has been normalised.
People who think MN is all man haters have never been in the real world.

I think the same as I'd think of the women who use it to find sex partners.

I would say that sometimes condoning teens having sex is the wisest option when considering the wider picture. I don't know what thread you're referring to though.

Thank you for a quick fire lesson in how to use the internet. Don't know how I would cope without you.
I'm referring to some of the threads / comments on Mumsnet.

oh disingenuous twaddle! men are FAR worse about women everywhere on the internet. Of course they don't come on MN and post that crap because the posts would be reported and deleted (as they should be elsewhere but aren't)

I genuinely don't understand this 'cliquey' thing. This is a site of 8 million people, 7000k of whom post each month. Amongst those posters you'll find people who agree with you and who disagree with you. Sometimes people who disagree resort to name calling.
As a left wing person, when I go on benefits threads or Reform threads, I know I'm going to encounter people who will call me 'woke' 'snowflake' etc, but also that there will be others who will agree with me.
If you find yourself having a different view to other posters, there's nothing at all to stop you offering the alternative perspective. If your view happens to be a minority one on that thread, you persevere if it's important to you and if your arguments are valid, you may be able to convince people over to your viewpoint.
Ultimately this is a discussion forum and the whole point is to exchange views. Calling people who hold a different view from you and who happen to be in a majority on a thread 'cliquey' is as bad as calling people 'pick me' or 'snowflake', reduces discussion to an emotional level.

What you after read on a thread is that that man can't take responsibility for things. Not all men (obviously). Reading threads on Mumsnet I am both depressed and appalled at level of crap that many many women endure. Does it change my view of DH? Of course not, he wouldn't behave in that way and if he did I'd kick him into touch. But I am able to be financially independent (if needed) and have good self esteem and never ever 'needed' to be in a relationship or wanted kids so badly that is put up with crappy behaviour from a partner.
Sadly many are not as fortunate as I. Plus many many men exploit societal structures and norms around gender roles and expectations to exploit or control women, from getting them to do all the domestic to not providing for their children or shouldering joint childcare costs (maternity leave having to be saved for by solely the women for example. Then there are the alarmingly large number of men who use threats of or actual physical violence.
Is Mumsnet promoting unhealthy attitudes. Absolutely not. It's a place for women to learn from other women that they didn't have to put up with this shit. It can support women to find strength and break free from shitty shitty situations and on a good day hopefully stops some women getting into them in the first place.

I was wondering when somebody would call this out (I'm not brave enough to start the discussion!). I spent too much time on Mumsnet after my first child during Covid. I developed unhealthy views about men. I found it deeply destructive to my relationship at a fragile time. I read an article this week that the language used on female message boards about men showed the same toxic hate speech traits as incel message boards about women. You would well believe it on some Mumsnet forums. I eventually withdrew from the site to use Reddit, which because of the gender balance, gave a more measured view point on different topics. The responses on some of the Mumsnet discussion boards are so predictable now could be written by AI. I've tentatively returned but try to proceed straight to topics of interest where I can chat with like minded women.

I actually think the opposite. I think that in our wider society women are conditioned to accept an awful lot of crap. On here this perspective is challenged. Generally this is a good thing I think.

Obviously the caveat to that is that you need to take the LTB chorus with a pinch of salt. But on the whole it's good to be more aware of the effects of the patriarchy.

Here are some threads you apparently missed...

Have you missed this entire board? Lots of Iran detail here.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/conflict-in-the-middle-east

All the Ukraine threads.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5475572-ukraine-invasion-part-60

Well it’s all true. It’s not just one woman - it’s a global experience!