Is MN feeding unhealthy attitudes towards men?

[Grtscott]

Some threads I've read this morning have helped me to realise that my thinking about men has changed since joining MN. And not in a good way.

There's an undertone that men need to do things the woman's way, or it's wrong. That men should be grateful for any sex that women are willing to give in a long term relationship, even if that peters out to no sex at all.

Men are seen to be babies who can't do anything for themselves, and need to have someone pre plan and organise their lives, but god forbid they fall into the pattern of behaviour of expecting their female partner to do these things for them, as that's what they've always done.

This thinking is observable to a greater or lesser extent across the boards.

I've also recognised where this thinking has affected the way I think about my wonderful man, and sometimes in things I've said to him or actions towards him. I need to watch this in future.

I'm concerned that the general thinking about men on this website can't be good for society if this is the way women think, and are encouraged to think by others.

If women treat men this way collectively and have low expectations around them, no wonder the bar is getting lower.

If more woman valued self respect over sex and financial support then they wouldn't lower their standards and date these awful men.

I’m not new, been here since 2009. I have seen the sentiment but never seen that phrase.

Sometimes they struggle to find one because they aren't good partnership material themselves. I know I'm not, which is why I prefer singledom. It makes me think of the people who desperately want friends but don't want to be a friend. They only think about what they want, not about what they can offer.

I can understand this in that context: it's definitely not healthy for a woman to think her husband was bewitched into cheating and it's all the OW's fault.

Why do you care so much @Grtscott about men being bashed on here?

When women are doing this, it's almost always for a reason.

Most women have MANY reasons to bash men.

And we're not going to stop because someone we don't know comes on here and says we should.

1000% correct. Mumsnet is like the manosphere for women, Louis needs to interview some of the women on here to understand where their hatred stems from.
I'm just glad no one I know in real life is as judgemental, sexist and pure nasty as they are on here 🤷‍♀️

We're still dealing with some men who were raised by a generation of some dads who can't microwave a jacket potato or turn on a washing machine (nor had they ever dreamt of learning).

My dad is 70 and could run a house on his own but mainly because he was raised by a single working mum and had no choice but to cook for himself and sort his school uniform. I'm not sure if that would be the case had his dad not died.

I don’t think MN discussions makes women hate men.

a lot of threads open up people’s eyes to what is unacceptable behaviour in their own relationships. I’ve learned a lot about my own abusive marriage ( after the fact) by reading MN threads. The advice and perspectives other posters have given have also helped me see I wasn’t in the wrong, and actually build better boundaries.

I do have a worse view of men from reading threads on MN, but that’s because posters have made me question what has been going on in my own relationships- with family, partners, work colleagues etc.

i wish id read MN in my 20’s!

How can you really know from threads whether the OP would be a good or bad partner? If they seem unreasonable etc you can have an idea but I'm not sure if often there's enough info to judge the OP.

MN rules. Don't do a thread about a thread.

I have also never noticed a generally anti-male bent here. I see far more examples of women carrying men’s water for them than otherwise.

I have definitely seen anti-male posts but they are definitely a minority and full of women passionately defending men.

It's on here all the time. The 'Not My Nigels' come on here and say to any women (who give several reasons why they are bashing men,) 'MY husband doesn't do this/doesn't act like this. In fact, no man I know acts this way.'

It's often followed by a smug and pathetic 'you need to get better men in your life..' type of comment. 🙄

Exactly, and if they really are 'lovely' then they will be as horrified as we are and will be talking about it too! The only ones offended are the abusers themselves.

I don't think sex is the top reason why women settle for bad men..

You are 100% correct!

When I was new here i posted something about my DH being unthinking and people probed and pushed the idea he was probably a terrible husband and this was the tip of the iceberg. It wasn't, and i was genuinely shocked.

BUT.... in the decade since, I have now seen myself soooooo many times that when a poster posts about a 'small issue' it IS actually more often than not the tip of the iceberg and they are being horribly controlled and emotionally abused by a terrible partner. So yes, MN does make you more cynical about male partners. It's sad. But it's no conspiracy, it's a reflection of the real world that can only be seen when women are anonymous online and supported to share things they normally hide.

100%.

Not the direct reason no. The top reason I think is they want children.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

nothing could be further from the truth. there’s a lot of male apologists on here too.

There are very few posters who come on here whose DH is a decent guy. So by definition, posters are talking about shit men who are making them unhappy.

quite right to be tough on them.

And what’s the worst that could happen? Some man gets kicked out the marital home for not doing the washing up?

the manosphere on the other hand encourages rape and violence towards women.

It’s not just that. There is a lot of societal pressure and vitriol aimed at single women. I have been single for 14 years as I never meet people I want to be with. And people are incredibly negative and sneering about that. Luckily I don’t give a fuck what people think, can afford to live alone and was never fussed by having kids.

Had any of those not been the case I could have easily settled for a poor quality partnership.

If you are so influenced by one singular website that it skews your own relationship then you have bigger problems.

Was that article leaning towards the ridiculous “toxic femininity” narrative that manosphere influencers have started using to try and debunk toxic masculinity? Do you believe a single article must be taken as fact? I’ve read articles that spewed the most ridiculous bullshit. My next step is to find others which balance the view or back it up. Then I take a wider view.

Reddit is a cesspit. You can find any sub which will support your world view.

I think this is it. Hands down.

I'm astonished that nobody else seems to have noticed that comment! This thread on why MN is mean to men was inspired by a thread where the husband asked for an open marriage then decided to keep the wife on the back burner while he decides if he has any other better options. The vast majority of comments are that this is really shitty behaviour and she is worth more than being a back up plan.

THAT is the thread that made the OP conclude that MN attitude towards men is unfair? I've checked the date today, we're being wound up.

That’s perfectly possible in terms of why they struggle to find one but that wasn’t really my point. Just explaining why some women can seek relationships despite having an issue with men who are not good partners.

The Manosphere basically advocates for women to be servants to men and encourages the use of violence towards women if they do not serve a man to his standards.

MN advocates for women not to put up with being treated as a servant and to leave a man if he is controlling or being violent. It advocates for their independence from men rather than being treated poorly.

Men want the use of women as part of dominance over women. Women want themselves and advocate for others to be free of men and to do things on their own terms not on the terms set for them which aren't in their interests and sometimes are actually harmful because no thought has been given to them.

I encourage everyone here to read 'Invisible Women' for lots of examples of how women are not considered - everything from health care to product design to issues around childcare. It is not extreme or particularly radical in the slightest. It merely points out the stuff that gets unnoticed because it's men who make decisions and don't have the life experiences of women and women are excluded from these conversations for various reasons.

Women are advocating greater equality, visibility of their issues or just general independence from having to be dependent on men on MN. The Manosphere advocates for the subservience of women and the loss of women's voices.

Even this thread is the stuff of the manosphere as it's seeking to crush this idea of women speaking for themselves, about themselves and advocating for themselves.

The comparison between the two is a fundamental lack of understanding of the Manosphere and trying to draw false equivalency.

Women do not have equality in many areas. People who say differently aren't really paying attention.