Is MN feeding unhealthy attitudes towards men?

[Grtscott]

Some threads I've read this morning have helped me to realise that my thinking about men has changed since joining MN. And not in a good way.

There's an undertone that men need to do things the woman's way, or it's wrong. That men should be grateful for any sex that women are willing to give in a long term relationship, even if that peters out to no sex at all.

Men are seen to be babies who can't do anything for themselves, and need to have someone pre plan and organise their lives, but god forbid they fall into the pattern of behaviour of expecting their female partner to do these things for them, as that's what they've always done.

This thinking is observable to a greater or lesser extent across the boards.

I've also recognised where this thinking has affected the way I think about my wonderful man, and sometimes in things I've said to him or actions towards him. I need to watch this in future.

I'm concerned that the general thinking about men on this website can't be good for society if this is the way women think, and are encouraged to think by others.

If women treat men this way collectively and have low expectations around them, no wonder the bar is getting lower.

It's interesting that you've interpreted my posts this way.

I'm am fully supportive of people calling out awful male behaviour and supporting women in recognising that for what it is and helping them address it in whichever way is appropriate.

I cannot be supportive of posts that side with the women, even though she may be, or is, in the wrong.

I get frustrated with sweeping statements that tar every man with the same brush. This is most evident in threads where the woman has decided she's done with any type of sex, and she's being supported by other women saying "he's a man, he only thinks with his dick"

I get angry when women who post supporting the man because the woman is behaving poorly, or is too controlling, or isn't allowing their male partner autonomy in their own life, their own home, their own parenting get piled on by other female posters.

Basically I'm fed up by some women's attitudes on here towards all men and acknowledged today that this attitude is so ingrained in this website it's had a subconscious negative effect on how I think towards men.

Perhaps men coukd sort their shit out and then women would not have to warn each other about them?

Some people have endured dreadful experiences at the hands of men and deserve to speak frankly without having to add a billion NAMALT qualifications. Men are not an oppressed class - quite the opposite, in fact.

Almost every physical and online space in the world is designed around men's wants and needs. Are women not allowed a wee corner of their own?

No.

Men are feeding unhealthy attitudes towards men, and some people are desperately trying to make women back into domestic supports only again.

HTH

In regards to your last paragraph, that sounds like a you problem, honestly. Why are you letting comments that don't reflect your real life experiences affect your view of men so much?

I will probably get flamed for saying this but I have thought there have been double standards for a long time on MN. If a woman admits to having an affair, she is often encouraged to not confess to it and what he doesn't know won't hurt him, but if the male is the perpetrator, It's a firm vote of LTB and take everything from him apart from the clothes he is standing in.

It is not misandrist to acknowledge that men as a class are a threat to women as a class.

I’m sure this has been said but men themselves feed the attitudes towards them.

I didn't acknowledge the effect of MN on my thoughts until this morning. It's been a subconscious slow creep I've not been aware of. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Or are women choosing to do this themselves and role modelling this to their daughters?

I think a lot of man hating does go on on MN, sometimes justified, sometimes not. But its mostly on a completely personal level and from what I've seen, its always about one individual relating to one thread, and rarely about men as a whole.

I think the wider point is that MN is kind of a safe space for women to come and talk to other women and share opinions, laughs, ideas, etc. the good and the bad. Within that i think that a lot of women provide support for other women with the notion of "hes a massive arse, you're so right" kinda thing. It allows women to vent about whatever man in their life, and i don't think most of the women here are inherently misandrists trying to spread hate, it's just the way they show support to other women sometimes, by agreeing with them.

If anyone pisses me off, I love having a good bitch about them. And I think thats all it is, bitching about what's annoyed you and getting it off your chest.

That being said, I have noticed a more sinister undertone in some threads with regards to male-hate. That's always going to exist, it exists in the form of misogyny as well, as is so widely evidenced in the world it doesn't require an example.

However, I don't think MN is the sole cause of spreading hate against men, and i don't think it's particularly rife on here either. There's a lot of LTB comments on a lot of threads, and i think a lot of the time its warranted. MN being a safe space, women come here questioning whether their own relationships are abusive, and a lot of the time, they are. Its really highlighted for me quite how much it goes on in the world, and if it wasn't for other women advising these women that they are suffering abuse, should LTB, and might even call him a dickhead, then there would be a lot of women still trapped in abusive relationships that needn't be. Its not the case they're just spreading hate against men, I genuinely believe their sole intention is to help other women (with the obvious exclusion of the users who just seemingly want to put others down for anything).

Also, I haven't really seen anything about supporting women never having sex with their partners. What i see most commonly is women saying they don't have sex with their partner anymore due to lack of emotional connection, etc, and in which case I can understand why they wouldn't want to. I have seen comments "he should be grateful for what he gets" in relation to threads like this, and i have to say, I don't disagree.

I also don't think there's much indication that people here think men should do everything a woman's way, perhaps some things, and honestly I don't think thats a bad way to think at all. After centuries of phrases such as "don't be such a girl", "you throw like a girl" etc etc being thrown around (and even to this day), im not surprised women are now taking charge and asking men, why can't you be more like a girl? It was always presented as such a bad thing, but it really isn't. They are saying they need to do everything a woman's way (whatever that means), but moreso hinting at they should be more considerate, emotional, etc. I can't recall the amount of times I have been told to "man up", or "stop being so emotional" - its always qualities likened to men.

Overall I think what you're seeing is women uniting in their mindsets and discussing what works and doesn't work for them in a relationship and in life in general, and do so (mostly) without the commentary of men, which can be very refreshing not to have that male input. I love it here (most the time) as its so nice to get perspective from so many women from so many different walks of life. I would definitely not say MN is one big misandry fest that is skewing society's view of men into the gutter.

What makes me really sad are all the children growing up in abusive, unhappy and unequal homes. Witnessing that lack of respect day in, day out until they believe it is normal.

Another thing that makes me really sad is "casual" male abuse of women, IRL and online.
The impact of addiction on families.
Grooming, rape and trafficking of women and children.
And VAWG.
The cost of male violence in terms of education, police, NHS and the further economy.
Apologists.
Children who grow up without a mother because she was killed by a man who claimed to love her. Many of whom witnessed it. Check out the stats for mothers murdered in the presence of her child.

Those things make me really really sad.😢

Mumsnet does not feed unhealthy attitudes towards men. Men do.🤷‍♀️ And they don't seem keen to change it.🤨

I agree OP. So many smart wonderful women on here but my goodness there are some idiots too. Only a handful, but they are so bigoted they have lost the ability to critically think. I think they target certain threads and make irrational sweeping statements. I've even seen some defend this saying they will always believe the woman is right regardless of circumstances. That's pretty worrying isn't it, they are no better than incels.

It's also worth remembering the many many good men who have suffered badly at the hands of the worst kind of powerful men. There is an idea here that all men are privileged but it's forgetting we are all sitting here with our WiFi and phones complaining about the world when none of us or our mothers or grandmothers lay in trenches or had legs blown off in battle or suffered torture in a POW camp. These might be historical in our part of the world but the same stuff is going on today elsewhere, as we know. We all know we will never be asked to march out as fodder, we will be protected first in a conflict.

Interesting. Well, that still sounds like a you problem, and not a Mumsnet problem.

I don't think it's proportionate to complain about women seeking support or venting in regards to their real life issues, and being sympathised with, because it influences your beliefs about men.

Perhaps you need to step away from such discussions if you're so prone to being influenced?

Women and children, or civilians in general, are not protected in conflicts if they happen to be in the territory where the conflict is taking place. They are (gang) raped and often executed, as seen in Sudan, Ukraine, and historical wars - and frequently by the 'liberating' troops as well. They're also bombed.

For instance, civilian casualties in WW2 are estimated at 38-40 million, versus 15-20 million battle deaths.

Not true

Let's consider one of the rules of patriarchy : the problem with male violence against women is that it makes men look bad. Maybe women should all be brainwashed into handmaids so we can keep posting about how wonderful men are are and how would any of us cope without one to protect us. 🫢🫣🤫

Really? I don't read Relationships much but if that's common when a woman has an affair, that's shocking.

Well certainly some kind of fool

Exactly, we're lucky we haven't been invaded recently but in most of Europe women certainly did suffer, as well as other places.

Interesting.

There's a good amount of posters on this thread that agree with me, yet you still label it a "me" problem.

Perhaps you need to read an entire thread to properly engage in such discussions, rather than be one of the MN women who try to pile onto a poster who disagrees with them regarding men?

Ive never read that, here or anywhere else

Yes,,this is one issue I have with mental load discourse- men tend to work longer paid hours and more overtime so if the woman does more housework and childcare, and the man longer paid, it may come to about the same.

Otoh there's clear evidence that even when women work the same number of paid hours, they usually do more housework and childcare too, which is unfair.

Partly agree...