Needy man in the coffeeshop

[Member968405]

We have a lovely coffeeshop nearby: independent, great coffee and pastries, lots of plants. Much nicer than Costa. A few minutes in there is my only peaceful time, a few times a week.

Every single day an older man is sitting in there. He says he’s ‘writing’ but he looks up at every single person who comes in, with ‘please talk to me’ eyes.

I have tried to be friendly, but it’s never just a quick chat about the weather. It’s always something enormous and I can’t get away: gender, immigration, his life history at great length. Yesterday:

Me: Hi how are you?
Him: Not good
Me: What’s wrong?
Him: Sometimes I just find people are so disappointing.

I was determined not to get trapped again so I just smiled and walked away at that point. Then felt guilty a bit but it’s ridiculous at this point.

Why do some men think women owe them a conversation?

YABU: Talk to him every time
YANBU: Quick smile and sit somewhere else

If young people display a lack of social skills, people are quick to suggest some neurodiversity. Yet, if it's an older person, he's a fuckwit, a loser, or manipulative.
Just some of the descriptions on this thread.

Don't neurodiverse young people grow up into neurodiverse old people then?

@BeanQuisinethanks for that laugh ‘not my problem mate, stick it up your arse’ 😂. My advice @Member968405 is don’t ask questions if you don’t want answers.

How incredibly rich

He’s not stopping you doing anything. You’re stopping yourself, because your need to be externally validated/viewed as a “nice “ person, came back to bite you in the arse. So you’re taking the easy way out, painting yourself as a victim instead of doing the normal thing and just not engage if you don’t want to. Hell, you don’t even have to smile or acknowledge him in any way, but what would people think…. Right?

My thoughts here are that you're asking him a leading question, "How are you?" That says to him that you want to know how he is, you will stand and listen to his reply, so he's giving it to you. Just smile and say good morning on your way to the counter, or just smile, or ignore him! The control of this is with you x

On the other hand, he was inviting you not to disappoint him, which is a bit much when you don’t know him.

Oh don't talk rubbish....this man was very passive aggressive and probably would have gone on to say (or heavily imply) that he's disappointed in people because they don't waste their spare time talking to him.

Yes he's probably harmless and uses manipulation because of poor social skills but this sort of thing winds people up....although no-one seems to have mentioned the manipulative tactics.

That said, I'm one of those smiley women who put up with this crap. And I can tell you from experience that within a few minutes he'd be in love with the OP and hassling her constantly. These old men are all the same.

It wouldn't bother me, everyone seems to chat to everyone. That said it is sad if he is lonely or depressed, youd think there'd be clubs and organisations that would be better suited for him than trying to make friends in cafes.

I think she just wants a quiet five minutes with her coffee. It’s not this deep.

So why does she ask how he is?

Is he British?

Could be a cultural thing. I’ve had this with US colleagues where conversations have sometimes gone a bit like this:

Me: Hi Steve, you alright.
Steve: What? Yes! Why? What?!?

i think he genuinely thought that I thought he’d just fallen off a ladder or something.

he looks up at every single person who comes in, with ‘please talk to me’ eyes

So what? Doesn't mean you have to talk to him.

And if you do, you really don't have to get into lengthy discussions.

For example:

You: Hi how are you?
Him: Not good
You: Oh, that's a shame. Hope things perk up soon, anyway - enjoy your coffee.

At which point you would go and sit elsewhere.

My Grandma used to say that you never know if you're the only person that someone has a conversation with all day or all week so she'd give freely of her time and chat to whoever needed it.

Of course if you don't want to talk to this guy you don't have to and you don't have to do it every time you go into the coffee shop. It's OK to say "it's chilly out there isn't it?!" or to reply to his disappointing line with a "sometimes yes, but sometimes they can really surprise you, have a lovely day, I've got some stuff to catch up on today" and move onwards to another table.

My Grandma used to say that you never know if you're the only person that someone has a conversation with all day or all week so she'd give freely of her time and chat to whoever needed it

Equally, the person you are expecting chat from might have been having conversations all day long, all week, and this might be literally their only chance for some peace/quiet and rest.

Someone's need to talk does not trump someone else's need for rest.

Poor social skills? Really. All the guy did was look up, then OP spoke to him, then OP got annoyed because he answered. What did she expect him to do?

I find this one tricky - my elderly cousin is neuro-diverse, though high functioning, and for various reasons has been cut off by all family members apart from myself and my daughter.

Due to school, work, other caring commitments etc there are limits on how often we can see her, and she tells me she can go for while weeks sometimes without any form of conversation with another human.

Its enormously sad, and I am grateful beyond words for any stranger who passes the time of day for her, while also knowing that I have no right to expect it when even many of her family members fine it impossible to do so. (Perhaps like this gentleman, she is quite outspoken, her views can be controversial, and she isn't great at reading social cues).

So I am just not sure, OP. If you need this respite for your own mental health, and the cafe feels like a place of safety and peace for you, of course you deserve to spend your time there as you choose.

However, I also think it's great if people CAN sometimes find it in them to give some of their time in conversation to the elderly and lonely - not at the expense of their own well-being, of course.

It's like charitable giving, I guess. We should all give what we can afford to, as long as we don't imporverish ourselves by so doing.

Tricky one. I used to be kinder than I am now.
37 years in the NHS has made me a little sceptical.
I've been taken in too many times by elderly people who seem absolutely lovely but have little contact with their "heartless" children.
More than a few times we've found out that the lack of contact is because the older patient was an abuser.
I'm a lot more careful now.

I would think thats quite a funny comment, wry.

I would laugh and say 'I know exactly what you mean, hope the rest of your day is better' and smile.

I say this as someone who really likes a good chat with people I see regularly: just smile and ignore - and never ask how he is. I have someone similar in a place I shop. I cannot offer him a polite how are you without having to hear a deluge of moaning. He only ever asks how I am in order to get me to ask him in return so he can moan. For goodness sake, just let me buy my carrots.

I would totally ignore the cafe bloke, sounds a pita. I can't be doing with idiots and clingy, draining people. Being kind can sometimes just fuck right off.

‘Small talk died’ - that’s my exact point
I’d be very happy to have small talk with him, as I do with many people. We all know it’s not really about the topic, it’s about people feeling noticed, valued etc.
My point is that he’s breaking those ‘rules’ by never engaging on a brief friendly level, never asking about how I am, never talking about anything general. Just these huge topics. Which demand so much more time and attention than my friendliness warranted.
I’m grateful to most responders for understanding that.
think I’ll have to change cafes sadl

Change your own responses.

You're giving more than you are happy with.
That's on you.
Not him.

You've dug a hole for yourself by getting too involved with him but the answer is not to stop going to the cafe but to change your behaviour when you're in it.

Option c immediately sit somewhere else

Sometimes I just don't have the social battery to chat. You are caught here because you have indulged them in the past. Plus you asked open questions.

I'm okay with a cheery hello, you asked them how they were. Take your Kindle or book with you, sit on another table.

Not good - I wouldn't be drawn in. I hope things perk up. At least it is a lovely day/there is cake/ whatever.

If they miss social cues, you will need to be clear. Hope everything is ok, I'm not looking to catch up today. I need to switch off so I'm not up for a conversation today (but really ever).

I understand and sympathise with lonely people. I might have had back to back meetings all day, answered all the Q's from DC and only have 10 minutes break.

This isn't a one off. It standard operating practise to vent their opinions.

Maybe everyone who can't detach themselves with a simple cheery word or smile should work behind a bar for a couple of weeks.
Everyone soon learns how to be friendly on their own terms; a quick word and smile can make others feel good, but then you move on to the next customer....
Then out in the real world, move on to be by yourself without feeling any pressure.

Would he try to speak to you if you just sat down at your table? I don't see why you should change cafes and you don't need to blank him, just a polite hello in passing.