To say SDs have to share a room?

[Cachet88]

DP and I are buying a new, bigger house. It will have four bedrooms. One for us, one for DS6. We also have SD12 (twins) who are with us EOWE and half the holidays. Currently they share a room.

SDs mum moved and we moved to be closer about three years ago. Therefore my mum now lives too far to do day visits but stays here every month or two. DP’s family live abroad and stay a few times a year, and we have other friends and family to stay fairly often too (pretty location!).

As there are now two bedrooms unaccounted for, SDs want a bedroom each. I do not want this, because I want a spare room for guests, and because both SDs are absolutely disgusting in terms of hygiene.

YANBU: they don’t need a room each
YABU: they need a room each

As the DP lives there too do they have a say in all this it is their children isnt it?

Firstly, I love SDs and want them to mature into successful adults. I am allowed to find their behaviour disgusting, just as I would DS’ if he did the same.

Secondly, we have them EOWE. By the time they return, taking phones away or cancelling a trip just means the 2/14 days we see them are spent with them sulking and resenting us. It’s not fun for anyone. We would never be able to impose a punishment on their mum’s time (and that’s fine).

Thirdly, I take on board and agree with what posters are saying about making DH go and supervise. Personally I have shown them how to tidy and what to do dozens of times. They’re not incapable, this is a choice. Which is why I am getting increasingly angry about it, which then causes arguments between me and DP.

And on their mum: I don’t think she’s neglecting them, I think she probably expects a 12 year old to know how to brush her hair and if she can’t be bothered, the natural consequences are dreadlocks (which I get the joy of brushing out - presumably if I didn’t, they’d end up being cut out and that’d be another natural consequence).

Their mum’s house has six/seven people living there with one bathroom, so I assume they have some kind of rota which doesn’t involve hour long baths.

There certainly are different standards and expectations, but their mum isn’t a bad mum, she loves them, and she’s not neglecting them in any way that’d require intervention.

And finally, I have read all the comments so thank you for your opinions.

I will be insisting on a shared room for them. If they become very clean and tidy, or spend 50%+ time with us, that will change. Until that day, I will enjoy having a spare room to decamp to when DP snores, and to host friends and family.

I think if the rooms are well sized enough to facilitate sharing then I’d say it’s reasonable at 12 BUT you might need to revisit this when they get a little older. I appreciate it’s only EOWE.

As a middle ground could you say they are allowed to use the spare room occasionally?

I also have a DD and a DSD however my DSD is at ours 50% of the time so has her own room. I completely understand though - it’s like having raccoons living in your house

Will your husband be stepping up as a father to supervise them?

A room each for kids who are there every other weekend is insane.

@Cachet88 Will your husband be stepping up as a father to supervise them?

That's what I would like to know?

Maybe he should have a serious talk to their mother about standards? He allowed them to be brought up as slatterns, now he should step up and fix it.

I agree that the EOW arrangement is very reasonable (and quite common in real life) for the reasons outlined above but on Planet MN, any man who doesn’t have, or aspire, to 50/50 - magically negotiating late starts and early finishes to his site manager etc job - is viewed at a totally useless parent

Their mum is neglecting them. Stop making excuses for her.
Neglect is the most over looked a minimised form of child abuse.
It’s usually not even acknowledged until the child has died of neglect.

In ‘defending’ their mum you have just made their regular home life sound even worse. Have a heart

What exactly do you think that I can do about it?

Theyte not being raised as I would choose, but they’re not my kids. DP has spoken to the school, social services, their doctor and solicitors. Nothing has ever crossed the line for intervention. There are a lot of substandard parents out there. Raising issues with their mum just makes her badmouth us to them and block access.

We have moved to be close to them. We provide a clean home with structure, routine, boundaries and expectations.

They choose to live at their mum’s. There is nothing we can do about it.

Maybe they start off sharing and if they prove they can keep it clean they get their own rooms? Paint it neutral

What you describe would not be neglect

They're 12, they have some self care skills and doesnt sound to be an issue that they dont know how to manage their hair or environment. She may have less head space to really focus on being consistent with them about it, the nagging or bribery but equally how many threads are there on here about natural consequences of choices. Well the natural consequence is that your hair gets matted if you dont brush it.

Its not neglect to have a busy household.

Tbh they may resent you but it’s also boundaries and rules

so if they tidy it up quickly they get phones etc

or they do it each night before they go to bed /have tv /etx

how much mess can they make in a few hours of being there

sounds like dad doesnt went to be ‘bad’ dad and have rules in place meaning girls dislike him

he needs to parent

and I still say it’s neglect not making sure they have brushed their hair and teeth etc

I agree.

There's been times in the past when their mum has struggled, and she’s certainly made choices I wouldn’t have, but she loves them and making her our enemy over things like brushing a teenager’s hair doesn’t benefit anyone.

@Mere1 I said especially twins as they are obviously the same age . So not like a 12 year old and a toddler.

On the mum I do see how difficult it is, but I think it’s wrong to be leaving it to the girls to “decide” whether to spend more time at yours themselves. They are 12 and obviously struggling. They are probably being manipulated or have been thoroughly “parentified” by their mum so it’s difficult for them to actively to decide to leave her for longer periods. That’s why they need their dad to step in and make the choice for them if necessary with a degree of authority (i.e at least try to get more contact via a court or solicitor if the ex won’t agree).

Just imagine if the tables were turned and your DS was living with his dad but coming to you EOW unwashed, with tangled hair, struggling to make friends and without basic self care skills/ standards. You’d do something wouldn’t you, even if it caused a row in the short term?

I’ve seen so many situations where everyone turns a blind eye to low-level neglect and the non-resident parent makes excuses and does nothing until something terrible happens- don’t let it happen to these girls.

He has tried to get more contact via a solicitor and has been firmly told by CAFCASS that they have no concerns and that she parents differently, and that the girls can choose where to spend time once they’re at secondary school.

The door is always open for them to spend more time with us. We can’t kidnap them.

Exactly this, I would be saying the same thing to you

I await the mums thread if your partner did go back to court.... with all the posters calling him controlling and not listening to what his OWN CHILDREN WANT and painting her a bad mother by simply even making that application.

I think that sounds like a very sensible way forward, OP. Though I also hope, for their own sake as well as yours, that the girls will take a bit more responsibility for their room and their belongings before they get too much older!

Putting myself in the shoes of the twins, I think it's something I would remember as an adult, not fondly, if I had to share when there were two rooms. I would definitely feel that I wasn't as cared about or important if there were two rooms available but I still had to share.

Perhaps it's "you have to share unless you keep your rooms tidy. If they are not kept tidy, you'll have to share again." Make it work for you.

Also, they are 12, so remember that soon they might become very hormonal. You might find they are very glad of having their own space. It would be especially nice for them given that they share at their mum's.

In terms of schoolwork, it would also be far better for them to have a room each, with a desk of course.

We didn't have a spare room growing up, but all the rooms were doubles. My room had two single beds and my sister's had a double. When we had guests - our grandparents would come to stay for a month twice a year - she came into the other single in my room. Was not a problem.

Well you could stop treating them as lesser, then maybe they'd choose to spend more time with you. Their own rooms would be a good start.

Make the room as easy to clean as possible as well
scrubbable wall paint
wood/metal bed
hard floor
indoor/outdoor washable rug
M&S stain remover wipes are a godsend

How is OP treating them as a lesser - or do you just hate step parents as a general rule ?