I just wouldn’t allow my child to do that… AIBU

[Dumbo18]

2 very strong willed kids who don’t really care about consequences and can get very emotional - angry, sad, happy just big emotions really. We often find daily life can be a battle especially with the 4 year old (7 year old can be just as bad) not really looking for advice as I’ve read countless threads on the subject so have seen and tried it all but here is where I don’t know if I am being unreasonable (maybe more am I missing something) 4 year old was refusing to brush teeth at bedtime, had to be done not an option especially as she had cake for pudding. Would absolutely not do it and I could hear in my head lovely people off this site saying well I just wouldn’t have that she would have no choice etc and it got me thinking how on earth would you just not have it?? Force her mouth open- absolutely not. Refuse to read her a book- tried, no tv in the morning- tried, calmly explaining why it’s important- tried, shout- tried. She brushed them in the end so not looking for advice more just an answer on if you say I wouldn’t allow that what is it that you do? Not only with teeth brushing but daily life. I think it’s easy to say I wouldn’t allow that when you are the parent of a child who does what they are asked, responds to consequences etc.

Yes. I wrapped mine up tight in a towel and wiggled the toothbrush into his mouth. Only had to do it once, but tooth brushing is non- negotiable in this house.

We have a lot of prewarning and negotiation. And we're still finding our way.

I just find the offer two acceptable options method is recommended everywhere, and it's as if the "experts" who suggest it have never met a child who can see right through it.

I am surprised that it works on enough children to bother recommending it. It didn't work on my NT child either.

It's easy to say "I wouldn't allow that" when observing something than implementing it. Every child is different, some more compliant than others. And most children test the boundaries to see what they can get away with.
Sometimes being relaxed in lots of areas helps so when I make a stance on something important it takes more of an effect - it's not like I'm nit picking at everything.
I would also say I have a strong willed child (6) - the type to try to negotiate with me! And it can feel impossible if they say the aren't doing something, they can be so stubborn even though it's for their own good. I find doing things with them helps, "c'mon let's do our teeth" so he doesn't feel that it's just him doing it.

Lots of people here using lots of acronyms, all i see is bad parenting...
If you cant get your 'strong willed' kids to do something as simple as brushing their teeth then you have failed as a parent...

I also have a child who when presented with the options “do you want to do xxxx or do xxxx” will simply respond “neither, thanks”. He’s not stupid and sees through all of the usual tricks. He is not deliberately defiant, nor have I made him that way due to lax parenting, it’s just the way he was made. he also gets physically stronger by the day, and while most of the time I eventually prevail after a protracted effort, I do wonder what I would do if he physically refused on something essential.

Always found the best way is cold hard facts. Google safe search off, search ‘children with rotten teeth’. Brushing time is no longer an issue in our house.

If you lack the imagination to be able to envisage our children and how they respond to all of the conventional parenting approaches, maybe it's down to how you were parented.

We had the opposite. DS has no problems cleaning his teeth, in fact he had very rigid rules about it, then refused. Trying to force him lead to meltdowns and he'd still refuse after that.

We did give up on trying to force him, went through many different options of toothbrushes and toothpastes and he didn't clean his teeth for months. He does now clean his teeth at night with one of those U shaped brushes. He also has regular check ups at the dentist, and his teeth are fine so far, thankfully, because I doubt we could get him to agree to treatment and at 12 it's difficult to force him to do anything.

Seriously so dismissive and rude. PACE techniques are actually recomended for many children and will work for NT and ND children. Its literally written in my youngest childs EHCP that all adults working with him must use PACE techniques as well as have training in PDA, sensory processing and tourettes. And it works. Adults that do this get a child who engages, who is curious, inquisitive, and capable.

The second you try to be authoritative or enforce your will any 'compliance' will disappear.

Some children are just not built that way. My youngest child has no concept of authority and never will. There comes a point where you cannot just force children to physically comply. They get bigger and stronger and force isn't solving the problem, it doesnt seek to understand why they are struggling. And there generally is a reason, so work it out and move forward together in a way thst supports the child. Don't just physically force compliance which will backfire later and likely cause trauma in the meantime.

For context I have a 26 yr old absolutely who was model child, always compliant, biddable etc. High achiever, autistic and very motivated. Now a high achieving sdult doung very well in his chosen field. And a 21 yr old and 18 yr old similar. Biddable, polite, generally compliant, also doung very well, one working, one in college..both following their chosen paths.

But I also have 23 yr old who was NOT biddable, a very wobbly high school period but now settled and doing well. Then I also have a 15 yr old who was until a year ago, a model pupil, high achieving etc but then when crippled with anxiety and overwhelm started shutting down. No difficult behaviour, academic high a higher, polite etc. Just shuts down and no consequence, reward etc will make any difference. If she cant di something, she cant do it.

And then 10yr old with complex needs who has never been compliant and needs very careful support.

Its not what I have and havent done. Infact I have had endless praise and my parenting commended (unusually) by LA, medical professionals etc ultimately some children are just harder work. And being consistent, laying down the rules etc will simply not work.

Isn't it remarkable that they still say "thanks" when being infuriating obstinate? Mine is the same, I can't fault her manners!

Also if you have a grandparent with false teeth, that helps.

Physical force would be a very last resort for me. It is just very short term: tonight they brushed their teeth but tomorrow what do we do. And by 11/12 - are you really going to hold them down.

I think, like with most things, you need to get them to want to do it.

I see and respect all those who are working to help ND children do things they find almost impossible to do. You are heroic.

@ForCalmScroller you are parenting on the easy setting. The laughably easy setting. And you don't even know it.

The poster who wrote the words below is parenting on the hard setting (and smashing it, honestly).

In the past, at the point where there was violence and extreme distress, I thought it would be better for him to end up in hospital getting teeth pulled than to for me - an adult - to destroy my relationship with my disabled child by threatening and punishing my way to clean teeth.
It's been a very uncomfortable journey for me as a parent.

Some of you have no idea how destroying it is to have a child where, because of their own disability or difference, you cannot keep them as safe and as healthy as you want them to be. Frankly, the notch less serious than this is bad enough - having a child where you cannot help them be able to take part in society the way you would want, such as going to school.

Despite using all your effort and skill and energy every day. Despite showing up over and over again when you are exhausted, grieving for the life and parenting you wanted, sometimes bitten and kicked, always insulted and rejected, in their overwhelm, by the child you love and fiercely protect. Terrified that you have to give in to them being less healthy or well cared for than you think they need.

You still have to parent in those moments and do your best to be as healthy as possible while not trigger them. My DD, at one point if I had had a "standoff" about teeth, or "given her a hard parenting look" or any kind of bollocks, to do with me asserting authority which I expected her to follow, simply because she is a child - well, she used to go in her room, before I could get my foot in, push hard and barricade me outside. Then she would scream and then go quiet and sometimes I would need to call the CAMHS emergency line in case she was trying to harm herself. Sometimes she was indeed trying to harm herself.

Since she was a tiny child, reward, punishment, consequence, didn't work. Of course I forced her to clean her teeth age 4...5...6...10... sometimes by brute force!! But she turned around at 11 and became so severely burned out we had to drop it all.

Had she "learned I meant business"? with my "consistent, strong, routine"? My no nonsense parenting (which had worked fine on older DD and DS)? Had she buggery. She had been cowed into submitting and initially was simply too little to mount an eloquent fierce resistance to things that overwhelmed her senses.

Once she came into near-adult powers, she CHOSE what she would do. Right to the wire, eating, drinking, sleeping, washing. My job became to become as skilful as possible in the arts of relationship, persuasion, humour, de-escalation. To keep her as safe and well as I can, which is tragically not safe and well enough.

This 100%
these people fatasise that it’s their great parenting that makes their children compliant
until the same parents gave 2+ children and realise they come with personality and some of these are STRONG

I'm curious. Are you one of those people who only believes in disabilities you can personally see? The type that shouts at blue badge holders because they don't look disabled?

No, but autism and adhd are not disabilities, so why bring that up

How do you reach that conclusion?

Every child is different. Parenting is endless trial and error!
Some things I do -- ymmv

• distract/gamify/humour
• countdown (still works for my DS somehow)
• consequences with follow through (you chose not to brush your teeth last night so no pudding. How can we make sure we have pudding tomorrow?)
• two choices (we can brush your teeth now/later/bathroom/kitchen etc)
• calm conversation. Children are people and leading with asking them how they feel/why they are refusing and them empathising with that reason, then gently asking what we could do to make it easier/work for them. Children are much less likely to be defiant if they feel like you're on their side. Try to make it seem like you're a team instead of you vs them.

-- "OH DEAR" in Teacher Voice. Very effective if you have one.

And sometimes nothing will work 🤷‍♀️ Don't beat yourself up, we're all only human.

My youngest DD has adhd and would happily never brush her teeth and is a nightmare to get focused but also does have things she really cares about (soft toys, books etc). We’ve only had to carry through threats of losing her things (temporarily) a few times for her to know the boundaries are real and a counted warning to three never gets past two now. I’m a strong believer in setting expectations and boundaries very early on and not giving them excuses (we’ll let it go as they’re tired, they’re only little, boys will be boys etc)

I understand this wouldn’t work for every child (especially if ND) but if I’m honest most kids I know that don’t comply / run a bit wild have parents that are a bit soft on them or are inconsistent.

Many many pages of replies, in my experience achieving respect where a child trusts you and does as they are told starts very early say 9-12 months as they begin walking, by 4 lots of everyday tasks should be normal and nonnegotiable.,

Likewise, I can't imagine neglecting my parental responsibility to clean my child's teeth. It has to happen one way or another. It's much better when you don't have to use force but if that's what's needed to keep them healthy then that's what's needed. It's usually just a phase. Once they've got the right brush, the right paste and know that it's non-negotiable, they generally get it.

By the same token, it's not pleasant to suddenly be shouted at and physically restrained with little warning but is there anyone that hasn't had to do this to their child or even to some dreamy friend or family member to prevent them from endangering themselves by walking into traffic or burning themselves on something hot from the oven?

Needs must.

Likewise, I can't imagine neglecting my parental responsibility to clean my child's teeth. It has to happen one way or another. It's much better when you don't have to use force but if that's what's needed to keep them healthy then that's what's needed. It's usually just a phase. Once they've got the right brush, the right paste and know that it's non-negotiable, they generally get it.

By the same token, it's not pleasant to suddenly be shouted at and physically restrained with little warning but is there anyone that hasn't had to do this to their child or even to some dreamy friend or family member to prevent them from endangering themselves by walking into traffic or burning themselves on something hot from the oven?

Needs must.

4 year old was refusing to brush teeth at bedtime, had to be done not an option especially as she had cake for pudding. Would absolutely not do it and I could hear in my head lovely people off this site saying well I just wouldn’t have that she would have no choice etc

perhaps some time off the internet?

It might feel a bit better to have that done at home than a few years down the road in a dentist's chair, followed by a local anesthesia jab and multiple fillings...

I have a child with pda, so most things in the house are negotiable. The just tell them who's boss brigade would be horrified to see some of my parenting! But tooth brushing and seatbelts in the car are the two red lines I have.

If brushing is refused I start off with then there is no sugar tomorrow. No honey in porridge, no fruit, no pudding etc. That usually works. If not then I explain that it's not negotiable and nothing else nice will happen, including bed time story, until it is done. I do think leaving it as one of the very few non-negotiables helps, so it's not an all day battle over different things.