I just wouldn’t allow my child to do that… AIBU

[Dumbo18]

2 very strong willed kids who don’t really care about consequences and can get very emotional - angry, sad, happy just big emotions really. We often find daily life can be a battle especially with the 4 year old (7 year old can be just as bad) not really looking for advice as I’ve read countless threads on the subject so have seen and tried it all but here is where I don’t know if I am being unreasonable (maybe more am I missing something) 4 year old was refusing to brush teeth at bedtime, had to be done not an option especially as she had cake for pudding. Would absolutely not do it and I could hear in my head lovely people off this site saying well I just wouldn’t have that she would have no choice etc and it got me thinking how on earth would you just not have it?? Force her mouth open- absolutely not. Refuse to read her a book- tried, no tv in the morning- tried, calmly explaining why it’s important- tried, shout- tried. She brushed them in the end so not looking for advice more just an answer on if you say I wouldn’t allow that what is it that you do? Not only with teeth brushing but daily life. I think it’s easy to say I wouldn’t allow that when you are the parent of a child who does what they are asked, responds to consequences etc.

Just because it hurt your feelings doesn't mean it's nasty.

I didn’t ask about homework. I asked about what you’d loftily said about waiting ‘half an hour or ten hours’ for a child to do as they were told.

not one person here has said they’d shrug their shoulders and leave their kids to it 😆

and yes of course you’re right, I’m SURE you’d sack work off and let other children miss school if you had to, just to make sure your misbehaving child (hopefully) got the message!

That’s actually how I brush my two year olds teeth. We brush the dinosaurs teeth first then hers. What’s wrong with that? <bemused>

I swear, some people on here think if the child isn’t crying you’ve done parenting wrong.

I’ve said in a previous post, teeth cleaning is one of my absolute non-negotiables and she does it, twice a day. Her teeth are perfect at 9. Just like OPs child who also cleans their teeth in the end, the point isn’t that we just say “ok fine, you don’t have to do it”. It’s that consequences, being firm, marching them to the bathroom, doesn’t work for our DC and to get them to do something they don’t want to do is a battle. We aren’t stupid. We know about boundaries, and consequences, and being authoritative. Most of us with non-compliant children have read every book we can find. And I know I can implement it all because it’s worked well with my other child. The point is that “well I just wouldn’t allow my child to do that” is so frustrating to those of us who were blessed with fabulous, clever, creative, but argumentative and difficult and oh so stubborn DC

My children were strong willed I would sit on the edge of the bath or a chair and get them to put their heads in my lap- like a dentist chair. I’d then tell stories about the characters I could see in their mouth when I brushed their teeth it was the only way that worked for me.

What happens then if they were to run onto the road/ you had to alert them to a danger? If you shouted stop would they carry on?

There have been times when if mine have point blank refused something that we have said is non negotiable, we have to either force them to do something or wait until they do. This is very rarely but it means they always know, that if they just have to do something, then it’s not an option.

I think though I have fewer non optional requests and I probably don’t make them tidy up enough.

Would you like to brush your teeth with the mint toothpaste or the strawberry one today?
Would you like me to brush your teeth or you do it yourself?
Shall I brush my teeth with you or do you want to do it alone?

DH and I are strict and what says goes, but where possible I prefer to avoid an almighty tantrum from our 4yo and I've found it an effective strategy for children with PDA (most of the time).

We absolutely would brush our DCs teeth if they were refusing and we've had to restrain 4yo to get her to take medicine in the past. She did take it normally from the spoon for all the following doses so a touch of tough love worked.

One of the challenges of neurodiverse children is that we start from the position of thinking we've got neurotypical children. And if we just get the right tone of voice, the right consequence, then our children would comply, like neurotypical children do.

It can be a bumpy journey to discovering that your child is neurodiverse and the rest of the world isn't necessarily on that journey with you. Family and friends can still think that alternative parenting would have made all the difference.

I am still exploring what my DD2's neurodiversity means, because each child is different. I am still trying to understand if she genuinely doesn't care that not complying with the carefully picked battles has an unpleasant impact on all of us, as a parent, that feels quite hurtful.

Some things just have to be non negotiable for a child's welfare.....eating fruit/veg every day, wrapping up in warm clothing when it's cold, brushing teeth and washing hands after going to the toilet all fall under that category in our house.

For what it's worth, I agree with everything you've said on this thread. It won't be accepted though.

In fact this thread confirms why schools are in crisis, why there are so many behavioural problems and why there's a parenting crisis. The attitudes on here confirm that to me.

I won't go into it. There's no point because I'll get absolutely jumped on, proving my point.

From what you've said, I'm sure you know what I mean.

I have worked with countless children with ADHD that would absolutely run into a road despite adults yelling stop, yes. For many reasons relating to their neurodiversity. It is a significant source of anxiety for their caregivers.

My 4 year old can be very stubborn and his response to Brushing his teeth has always gone up and down. When hes feeling ok about teeth Brushing we can make it a game eg pretending im his favourite book character while I brush, or listening to a tooth Brushing song like hey duggee or danny go. When hes not it can be explaining natural consequences such as germs growing which over time results in needing injections in your mouth and or teeth removing, tooth pain etc rather than threats of not doing x,y and z. May sound like scaring them but it's about education and what is likely to happen as a result of action or innaction. Ive also made a point of (regularly and when in a good space) discussing respecting his boundaries vs making decisions for him that keep him safe and healthy. So for example he (and most kids) dont want vaccinations... I get it, they are needles and hurt. However we often teach kids nobody should touch them against their will, and if they say stop then people should stop, and people shouldn't do anything that makes them feel uncomfortable etc. And that is so important for kids to know. This however contradicts things like them expressing they dont want a needle and I never want that to feel confusing for him. Ive always told my child that there are some times that he cannot say no while he is little, because there are things we as parents need to do to keep him safe and healthy (and i use those key words) and explain they might be difficult times but he can have a say in how we do them so for eg you have to have the needle but do you want to sit on my knee and put your head on my shoulder, or sit on your own chair and hold my hand. It helps to have the conversation regulalry so that in difficult situations I can explain its an action to keep him healthy or safe and we have to do it. I also say that in those difficult times where we have to do things we will always try to talk qbout it before and he will always have a parent there with him... sometimes that means he is restrained eg for blood tests or teeth Brushing but then we talk about it again after and explain. I also make a point of letting him help me brush my teeth regularly, or doing them together.. and if ever I need bloods or a needle or dentist check up I take him with me and let him 'be there for me' so he can see these difficult situations also apply to me as an adult (note I'm not phobic of needles or dentist so dont actually need his support, its just a way to normalise that sometimes we all have to do things we prefer not to, even as adults if it keeps us well) He gets it and it works for him.

All of those questions would have got a straight "No" from my DD. She was never fooled by options.

Tooth brushing was non negotiable and on occasion it did involve wrapping them in a towel and pinning them down.

I recall saying at one point, keep screaming it’s helping me get the back teeth. I didn’t have to do it often before they got the message.

Yes, if she ran into a road and I shouted stop it would have little effect. If it DID have an effect it would be to make her freeze in the middle of the road and drop to the ground. This is why at 11yo I have to treat her like a toddler and hold her hand or the back of her coat at all times. She does try to abscond from time to time and an adult has to be there with eyes on at all times, I can't have a cup of tea and chat to friends unless the exit is covered and she is well regulated. This is the reality of having a child with SEN, it's not all Lucy and Yak dungarees and maths geniuses.

She's really good at tidying up when told to do so though!

They you shouldn’t have taken her to the party…you seen incapable of disciplining your kids and you are creating a rod for your own back. It is you who will be exhausted and not enjoy your children as you children.

you just have to follow through and they will start respect you and obey you. If you flex and bend then why should they? You are sending mixed signals.

well adjusted children who respect authority turn into well adjusted adults

You're over explaining and over burdening him with information. He's 4!!!!

Same here. But then she also clamped her mouth tightly shut with the toothbrush between her teeth in a vice like grip on the one or two occasions I did try to 'force' her to clean her teeth (I.e. before I knew she was nd). She was 5 at the time. She's 9 now, and able to explain that when she feels overwhelmed and anxious she has a heightened gag reflex. I'll never know whether this is why she kicked off so much about teeth cleaning when she was much younger, or whether I caused it by holding her down and shoving a toothbrush into her mouth while she was fighting me off. I'll never forgive myself for that. All because everyone tells you that some things are 'non negotiable' and you 'just have to have authority' over them.

Did you miss the "He gets it and it works for him" bit?

Why criticise if it works for them?

@Whatafustercluck I'm sure you'd never forgive yourself for her teeth all falling out and needing a ridiculous amount of dental work before she's 9 either, and ending up with trauma from that.

I can see some assumptions here from those lucky enough not to face these issues — that if you parent “properly” you don’t end up with a child flat out refusing and nothing you try working.
If you have a compliant child and you’ve followed the usual advice, it’s easy to feel like you’ve cracked it. Of course the techniques work most of the time. But not all of the time, and not with every child.
It’s not always something you can parent your way out of. A bit of empathy and a willingness to look beyond your own experience wouldn’t go amiss. Do you think we're going through this for the fun of it? from laziness?
I'll trade with you any day.

That's ok, all children are different. What is your approach @WoollyandSarah ?

No teeth cleaning actually occurred because as I said, she clamped her teeth shut meaning i was unable to move the brush. So all I did was traumatise her while simultaneously failing to achieve my goal.

People saying “just have authority over them” have literally no idea. I have three children and two of them have their moments but by and large they will do what they are told to do. The third will cut off their nose to spite their face. They’ll take your consequences, throw them in your face and escalate the situation. He has such a strong will and the wrong thing to do is back him into a corner so he feels like he has no choice because he will just fight you to the end on it.

With a child like this you need a way better technique than, I’ll make them do it.

Anyway tooth brushing did stop being an issue and he does it through habit now. But we still have our moments on other things.

I was just blessed in the 'mum look' department tbh.

I accidentally gave it to a colleague once when I having a bad day and he came into my office unexpectedly at the wrong time and he just apologised profusely and reversed out of the room 😂.

Seriously though I work with in a secondary school now (didn't when DD was younger) and I think on a daily basis how incredibly lucky I got with her. She had her moments (I would just in the room with her until she ran out of steam and gave in on the handful of occasions she really kicked off) but otherwise I rarely had to battle her to do stuff.

Disclamer: she's 21 not and it's entirely possibly I've forgotten things!