16yo ds seeing much older man in London, ds1 has made it 100x worse, dont know what to do know

[kettleonbutnoidea]

i dont even know where to start tbh this has all come out in the last couple of weeks and i feel like im constantly on the back foot

my ds2 is 16 (17 in summer) and has been talking to someone online for a while which I DIDNT KNOW about until recently. turns out its a man in his 30s living in london. ds says they have “met a few times” which actually means hes been getting the train down there on his own. i only found this out because his brother saw messages on his phone

before anyone says yes ive had the talk about safety etc but hes insisting its all fine and that hes happy. says im making it weird and that age is just a number which hasnt exactly reassured me

then ds1 (22) completely lost it. tracked the man down online and basically messaged him threatening him. i dont know exactly what was said but it was bad enough that the man replied saying he’d go to the police if it carried on. now ds2 is furious with all of us, says weve embarrassed him and is barely speaking to me

since then hes even more secretive and has said hes going to stay in london “for a bit” over easter. i feel sick writing that but i dont know if i can physically stop him and im worried if i push too hard he’ll just go anyway and cut me off

im stuck between thinking this is completely wrong and also not wanting to drive him further away

AIBU to be this worried or do i need to back off a bit now its all blown up?

The position of power reference in law is to prevent adults who are for example teachers or coaches from getting into relationships with their students.

Yes- that was totally separate to the other case that was widely reported in the media where he exchanged communications with a 17 year old boy.

There was no criminal offence in that instance.

You’re right. It’s just sickening.

Indeed it is, and being turned away by the police or seeking legal advice on the matter to find out that there is nothing either can do is even more gut wrenching

That may well be, but people posting misinformation and inaccurate statements about the legal position aren’t helping the OP resolve the situation.

Sexual Offences Act 2003

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/section/48

All I’ll say is that you need to nip this in the bud NOW! Sit your son down with DS1 and any other close family members that can be involved and discuss this whole situation rationally, without arguing or shouting.
Ask him to explain exactly what is going on, how he met this person etc., then give him your honest views on why this is so wrong (on every level), to try to make him see sense. He is far too young and immature to be going to London to meet and stay with someone twice his age that he met online and knows nothing about. He only knows what he has been told by this person, who is off kilter if he thinks what he is doing is ok. It is extremely worrying that your son sees nothing wrong with this and thinks they are “together”. A lot of 16 yr olds these days are confused about their sexuality. Is he sure this is who he is or that this is really what he wants? It might just be the first person to make him feel sexually attractive or wanted, for example. Try to get him to delay taking any action until he is 18 and has had a chance to really think about all repercussions.

You say his dad is not in the picture. Maybe you should contact him and ask him to get involved as well?

Tread carefully…. He needs to see that you are doing this because you care about his welfare.

You have to apologise and keep him close to you.
A big, angry reaction is exactly what that predator wants.

You do not understand the law.

The age of consent is 16 but that doesn't mean that it's always legal for someone much older than 16 to have sex with a 16 year old. That's why the CEOP acts against child abuse in the UK up until the age of 18, and not 16.

If there is evidence of grooming then the police can act, even if the younger person is 16 or 17.

It's really not helpful to say other people have got it wrong, when they haven't, over an issue as serious as this.

What age was the “child” Hugh Edward’s had images of?? He was 17. A year older than the child which is the subject of this post. But sure it’s fine for an adult to shag a child 🙄 also in this day and age do you truly believe that 30 odd year old in London doesn’t posses any “indecent” images of his 16 year old “boyfriend”. And therefore he has broken the law….

It’s also about the adult environments he could find himself in such as parties, pubs and clubs, possibly even with fake Id (assuming that?) with a 30yo and their social circle- in those places he’s very much a vulnerable child, especially if he leaves a venue alone late at night in London. Conversations around his personal safety might be one approach for the OP to help her 16yoDS understand the other risks and dangers, which aren’t necessarily related to whether he believes he’s in a consensual relationship.

Absolutely this.
Your DS1 seems to be the only one with the guts to actually do what is right.
You seem like you want to be his friend but you are still his parent and all this being frightened to make it worse and blaming DS1 for making it worse makes you look a bit like you are wanting an easy life and to take the easy option.
Unfortunately “good” parenting isn’t easy

Sadly, I’m not sure if this would be able to be investigated as “sexual exploitation”. Her son isn’t in receipt of anything in exchange for sex (as far as we know)

“If your child has reached 16 or 17 (and legally able to consent to sex) this does not mean that they are no longer at risk of sexual exploitation.
Consent is defined in the Sexual Offences Act 2003, s.74 as an agreement by choice where the person concerned has the freedom and capacity to make that choice. In almost all cases involving grooming the child’s capacity is undermined by virtue of imbalance of power between the child and the exploiter, the control exercised and the manipulation or use of force. This age group is covered by statutory duties under the Children Acts 1989 and 2004, and your child can still be subject to significant harm as a result of sexual exploitation.”

It’s the sexual offences act and some aspects of the serious crimes act. CSE has been recognised as a serious issue and there are laws that make sure at 16/17 year olds are protected. CSE is not the same as age gap relationships. So it’s not just saying well they’re 16 they can consent, if there’s concerns that they could be being groomed then she should be getting advice around that. And a 30yo getting a 16yo to travel down to him is a screaming red flag

I remember a few threads here on MN where a teenager even moved in with a significantly older 'partner'. Can't be bothered to look for them all, but quick google shows this one, for example.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/teenagers/4824272-16yr-old-son-moved-in-with-28yr-old-gf-help

OP's 16 year old son moved in with a 28 year old woman who has a 9 year old child. She did go to the police and all. Here's what the OP said: 'We’ve phoned the police again and they say they can’t go on the fact we think he’s been groomed (behaviour change is the biggest as well as moving in with her etc). They said it’s all just guess work and to try and get him to come home but they will not do anything. I told them we have a residence order stating where he lives between us and his actual mum and they said speak to a solicitor then as they won’t act on that either!'

This is for all the 'go to the police, that's grooming!!!' ones.

There were other threads too, I remember seeing one where the 16 year old son moved in with a 36 year old woman. Police again didn't do shit in that case.

Yes but you don’t know do you. And his age is a big enough red flag that she shouldn’t just let it go

I'd say this is a minor being exploited. If you don't feel able to go to the police is he at school or college? There will be a safeguarding team who you can speak to.

It is a horrible situation OP you have my sympathies. Legally this old man is not doing anything wrong UNLESS there is evidence of coercion, OR evidence that he communicated with your son before the age of 16 for a sexual purpose. Going in two-footed risks driving your young son away. I suggest that you call the NSPCC Helpline for advice on your options and how to deal with the situation.

If he’s in school or college, approach the safeguarding lead for support.

You must be so worried. But try to step back and find out more about gay sexuality? For homosexual men, being attracted to "daddies" (I.e. older men) is an accepted part of young men's sexual behaviour. There's lots of info online - even a Wikipedia page - as well as dating sites and suchlike. Try not to be repelled; don't accidentally reject your DS and his sexuality. Read as much as you can, and definitely look at the dating sites. This may be how your DS met the man. The sex lives of many gay men simply do not follow the rules that heterosexuals often think are universal. As far as I know, 'daddies' are not automatically seen as predators in the gay community. Good luck - keep talking to both DSs!

How can you stop the OP's son getting on a train to London?
Unfortunately he is 16.

There are many types of sexual exploitation.

While a child can consent to sex, and to receiving gifts, they cannot enter into a contract. Thus both are legal until one is made dependent on the other.

So, for instance, being filmed (beyond in public) and having that shared is not something he could consent to and would constitute exploitation.

Grooming into what?
criminal or sexual exploitation? Sure. But it's not grooming into sexual abuse because the 16 year old is over the age of consent. Disgusting it may be, but it's not a crime for a person in their 30s to have sex with a 16 year old.

OP by all means contact the police if you want to, but I don't think they will do much to assist you.

I completely agree with you @Sunshine231The laws surrounding this situation are failing young people. It beggars belief that a man in his 30s (or older) can be charged for possessing indecent images of a 16/17 year old but not necessarily charged for having sexual intercourse with the same person who is legally a child. For it to be illegal, the 30 year old would have to be in a position of trust or be exploiting/ grooming the young person.

@kettleonbutnoideaplease phone the NSPCC for advice.

Lots of wrong information and opinion given here which wont help OP manage her expectations

Pre CAWN and CAWN - these are issued when a missing child is found, while missing, continuously in the presence and company of someone. This doesnt apply here

Exploitation and grooming - the boy has not made an allegations of control/grooming, he isnt observed to have money/drugs/clothing/gadgets/alcohol given to him to control him or groom him. He also hasnt made any allegation of harm. OP does not have anything to report to the police

Sarahs Law/Claires Law - OP can make an application for this, but the information is given to the subject (her son), not to her. Her son can refuse to engage with the police and refuse to hear any information about him if he wishes

An avenue is to check with the police if he is on a sex offenders register and if that is the case whether contact with her son is in breach of that. She'll need his details, name, address, dob.

The way forward as someone said is communication.

I wouldnt be angry at the brother either for his actions. The legal situation is as above, the police wont do anything. That doesnt mean that as a family you cant try to protect your son though. And still report it so that its there on record. Just manage your expectations about it.