16yo ds seeing much older man in London, ds1 has made it 100x worse, dont know what to do know

[kettleonbutnoidea]

i dont even know where to start tbh this has all come out in the last couple of weeks and i feel like im constantly on the back foot

my ds2 is 16 (17 in summer) and has been talking to someone online for a while which I DIDNT KNOW about until recently. turns out its a man in his 30s living in london. ds says they have “met a few times” which actually means hes been getting the train down there on his own. i only found this out because his brother saw messages on his phone

before anyone says yes ive had the talk about safety etc but hes insisting its all fine and that hes happy. says im making it weird and that age is just a number which hasnt exactly reassured me

then ds1 (22) completely lost it. tracked the man down online and basically messaged him threatening him. i dont know exactly what was said but it was bad enough that the man replied saying he’d go to the police if it carried on. now ds2 is furious with all of us, says weve embarrassed him and is barely speaking to me

since then hes even more secretive and has said hes going to stay in london “for a bit” over easter. i feel sick writing that but i dont know if i can physically stop him and im worried if i push too hard he’ll just go anyway and cut me off

im stuck between thinking this is completely wrong and also not wanting to drive him further away

AIBU to be this worried or do i need to back off a bit now its all blown up?

My DS2 is gay. He’s now 22 but came out at 16. Not a chance in hell would he be meeting with a pervert in his 30s in London. I think my DP would hunt this man down

I have just read it on a law page, local council page and two charity pages.

don’t get me wrong I’m not saying its not happening but if there is no power imbalance so think like the Huw edwards thing or even the philip schofield thing, where they gave the kids money, or in schofields case a job where he maintained power over him. From what the OP is saying thats not the case.

It’s disgusting that a 30yr old man is looking to meet 16yr olds online, he knows what he is doing but if its just a ‘normal’ relationship and the OP’s son is consenting there is not a lot they can do.

personally I think it needs a rethink. The OP should still reach out for help anyway, the heat/pressure over it may make the man end it. What the OP does not want to do is push her son away, the suggestions to treat him like a child & take his phone/ground him are stupid, he will just take himself to London

It’s only legal to have sex with a 16/17 year old if you are not in a position of power or grooming them. It’s a grey area. How on earth can a man in their 30s not be in a position of power over a 16 year old boy? It’s also illegal to possess indecent images of a 16-17 year old which is the baffling thing- you can screw them but not have an image of them naked. The law needs changing imo. As someone who is 33, I would have no place even with an 18/19 year old young man let alone a 16/17 year old.

This is terrible advice.

No it is correct. A 22 and 16yo can have sex, it’s not illegal. But if that sex occurs because the 22 year old has spent time grooming that child, buying them gifts, giving them alcohol, isolating them etc etc that’s a crime. We don’t know if the OPs son is being groomed or not. But just because someone is 16 doesn’t mean that what’s happening isn’t a crime, it might be

I beleive you should contact the police. This man has been grooming your son and may have a police record. How did DS1 find him?

The police put out alerts for missing 16 year olds. Because they’re children. A man in his 30s is having sex with your child.

How can you not think this is hideous and horribly wrong?

OP said he’s 17 over summer so likely at college.

what are you going to prosecute the old person for?

I would agree with everything else - why would a 30 year old man/woman want to be with a 16 year old and indeed it seems perverse that the man could be prosecuted for holding images which are indecent but not for actual sex.

but them are the rules

@Sunshine231it isn’t illegal for an adult to have sex with a 16 year old. It only becomes illegal if the adult in question is in a position of trust e.g teacher, social worker, police officer, doctor. Or if they have groomed the young person. So on the face of it, this man is doing nothing illegal. Highly immoral but not illegal.

Huw Edwards was convicted of possessing indecent images of children under the age of 18.

So legally, this man can have sexual intercourse with the 16 year old but can’t possess indecent images of him. And certainly can’t share them. And this is a good example of why the law is insufficient in such circumstances. I guarantee you that this man knows all of this all too well and the OP’s ds will not be the first nor the last.

The power imbalance is the age, there may be more, he might be sending money or gifts, he might be offering something and manipulating him. The older person doesn’t need to be a celebrity for it to be a crime.

there’s plenty of older men that groom 16/17 year olds and then get them to sleep with their friends etc. they’re not celebrities or teachers but they can still be prosecuted

That’s again, not true

OP’s DS is being groomed. It is illegal for an adult to have sex with a 16/17 year old if you are grooming them. A 30+ year old is always a groomer in this situation. I would put money on him giving OP’s DS lavish gifts and/or cash.

It is true. Check the law.

What is the crime and what can the man be prosecuted for?

If alcohol is being purchased for the 16 year old in a shop then that would be a crime, but nothing has been said about alcohol

All other things aside, I mean technically he’s of the age of consent even though it’s massively icky, I’d be taking a harm reduction approach. He needs to keep himself safe until he’s old enough to make more sensible choices. Is he on PrEP? If he isn’t, I’d be offering to drive him to the clinic so he can get on it. This will trigger a conversation with a nurse that may result in some safeguarding action if he’s honest about what’s going on.

I know the law. You have no idea of this man has groomed him or not. They met online and he’s travelled to London in secret to see him. I would be shocked if they checked their messages that this man wasn’t grooming him in some way

What crime is being committed?

Under the Children Acts 1989 and 2004, 16 and 17-year-olds are still covered by statutory duties and agencies, including the police, who have a duty to protect them from child sexual exploitation.

Your DS may be consenting to sex, but he may still be being exploited.

Your best course of action is to have your DS invite the other man to come and visit and then you can all have a conversation and work out what is going on.

If he does not, then take that fact to the police.

Have you heard of child sexual exploitation?

Doesn’t matter what you would ‘allow’ to be frank. The man is not doing anything illegal simply by being in a relationship with the OP’s son.

There is nothing she nor the police can do to legally prevent it.

what law is being broken and what can the person be prosecuted for?

you've said you know the law- tell us which law is being broken? It will be really useful to know the legislation and crime that is being committed

You can’t say that without knowing the circumstances.

Grooming and coercive control can take place at any age and are illegal. An 18 year old could be groomed by a 30 year old.

Simply the existence of this relationship is not illegal unless there are other offences taking place.

Grooming is only a prosecutable offence if the child is under 16. OPs DS is not.

However he could be being groomed, and thereby exploited. Exploitation is an offence.