16yo ds seeing much older man in London, ds1 has made it 100x worse, dont know what to do know

[kettleonbutnoidea]

i dont even know where to start tbh this has all come out in the last couple of weeks and i feel like im constantly on the back foot

my ds2 is 16 (17 in summer) and has been talking to someone online for a while which I DIDNT KNOW about until recently. turns out its a man in his 30s living in london. ds says they have “met a few times” which actually means hes been getting the train down there on his own. i only found this out because his brother saw messages on his phone

before anyone says yes ive had the talk about safety etc but hes insisting its all fine and that hes happy. says im making it weird and that age is just a number which hasnt exactly reassured me

then ds1 (22) completely lost it. tracked the man down online and basically messaged him threatening him. i dont know exactly what was said but it was bad enough that the man replied saying he’d go to the police if it carried on. now ds2 is furious with all of us, says weve embarrassed him and is barely speaking to me

since then hes even more secretive and has said hes going to stay in london “for a bit” over easter. i feel sick writing that but i dont know if i can physically stop him and im worried if i push too hard he’ll just go anyway and cut me off

im stuck between thinking this is completely wrong and also not wanting to drive him further away

AIBU to be this worried or do i need to back off a bit now its all blown up?

The man may have a record.

I know this is an odd thing to suggest but watch “Power” the drama about Huw Edward’s on channel 5. It will make you realise how wrong this is. Someone needs to go to the police. Your child is being groomed.

The police will not be interested. Everyone, legally, is over the age of consent.

just to answer a few things because its all a bit of a mess in my head still. i dont think hes being given loads of money, he has a part time job at a supermarket and has always been quite careful with money, but i honestly dont know if this man has paid for anything when hes been down there which is worrying me now ive read some of these

ds says they are “together” not just friends. i havent pushed too much on details because he shuts down straight away and says im judging him. he says hes happy and that this man “actually listens” to him which stung a bit if im honest

i havent gone to the police yet. part of me feels like i should after reading here but part of me is terrified it will just blow everything up even more and he’ll go anyway and not tell me anything again. thats already happening a bit since his brother stuck his oar in

re ds1, i know people are saying good on him but it has made things worse between us all. ds2 is acting like its me and his brother against him now which is exactly what i didnt want

i genuinely dont know if i can stop him getting on a train at 16? people saying take his phone etc but that feels like it will just escalate things more

i feel like whatever i do is the wrong thing at the moment

i might look at that ceop link someone posted when ive calmed down a bit

That's not true.

He may be over the age of consent but he's still legally a child so the police can intervene if they believe grooming is going on. And from the OP, there are several classic red flags re grooming.

This isn't two people happily chatting. It's a legal child secretly meeting a man in his 30s. The secrecy, the solo train trips, the defensiveness when raised, the sudden plan to "stay in London for a bit" over Easter, the "age is just a number" - they are all textbook grooming red flags. This would meet the criteria for an intervention by the CEOP.

Does the man know DS2 is 16. Assume DS1 told him

Stop trying to be his friend and protect him. He's in danger. Why are you scared of escalating things? Your inaction is absolutely unbelievable.

OP if there was any online romantic chat prior to your DS being 16, this man would be classified as a predator. Let DS know that you don't think this escalation was a wise move but it was done because his brother was worried about him, and you are too. You could tell him you are worried for his friend too and explain the legal situation - see how he reacts. Then you will know whether the man was in contact with him when he wasunderage and you could legitmately call the police.

Horrible as it is, make DS watch the Breck Bednar documentary with you and say while you don't expect that his friend is dangerous, he has to understand why you are so concerned about him threatening to stay overnight with someone you don't know. Ask him to keep his phone switched on at all times with a location tag, and to send you the address and his friend's phone number if he goes to visit him. Obviously it would be better if he didn't visit him, but if you think he will anyway, then try to ensure you have as much contact as possible.

Tell DS if the man is as lovely as DS thinks he is, he should completely understand that a 16 year old's parents are concerned for his safety. Ask to chat with the man on Zoom, so you at least know his face. He'll say no, of course, but it might help him realise that your reactions are out of love not desire to control or homophobia or any other excuse it's convenient to throw at you. And it might make him realise the man is trying to isolate him from you which is a sign of control.

I suspect the man is not at all as nice as DS thinks he is, and all this fussing will put him off. He's probably scouting for a boy whose parents don't care.

This sounds like such a difficult situation. I'm in my 30s,16 is a child and I can't fathom a normal person on their 30s having a relationship with a 16yo. You're right to be worried but you are a bit stuck. Do you have any details of the man in London? I'd be contacting the police to do a Sarah's/Claire's law. I'm not 100% which one a 16yo falls under but I do think it's better recognised in the police force now that 16-18yo can be groomed. This man may have form for it and your DS getting information like that might help him see sense.

You can’t stop him getting on a train, no.

and at 16 if he gets really pissed off and feels his family aren’t supportive he can leave home and the police will not bring him back (they may do a welfare check - ie check he is alive and ok if you insist).

The police are very unlikely to care unless you have evidence of this being any kind of non consensual or abusive relationship.

People acting like this child will have the freewill to end this when "he gets bored" the man is in his 30s, he is clearly not a normal, safe man. He is a child that is being groomed.

This is a serious and dangerous situation. This isn't "my daughters boyfriend's an idiot." This isn't even a 16 year old dating an immature 21 year old. This is a child being groomed by a fully fully grown man.

this, am assuming the grooming predator is sending the money to him for all of this? Good evidence for police.
I honestly can’t believe you’ve said your ds1 has made it worse, that’s awful.
is ds2 your golden child?

If you chose to go the police route be aware that they can be very homophobic. I have seen the police dismiss boys and treat these cases differently because of the trope that gay men are promiscuous. You should be aware of this, I’m not saying you will encounter it (hopefully not) but you need to keep an eye out of that.

urgh what a fucking pervert. I don’t give a shite if it’s “legal”. It’s morally reprehensible.

Id be having a word with this man and ask him WTAF he’s playing at. What a disgusting piece of shit.

"i havent gone to the police yet. part of me feels like i should after reading here but part of me is terrified it will just blow everything up even more and he’ll go anyway and not tell me anything again. thats already happening a bit since his brother stuck his oar in"

Your 16 year son has been groomed by a bloke in his 30s and has been secretly meeting him and you haven't thought to contact the police?!?!

What sort of man would be interested in a 16 year old boy?! A sick one. A paedophile!

If your DS1 has tracked him down then give the details to the police. He may have only been 15 when this started. Or younger...

CONTACT THE POLICE!!

I teach kids age 14 to 18, and they're still kids at that age. This is beyond creepy.

Ask DS2 if he would bring his boyfriend to stay at his home. Make this 30 year old man welcome. See what he's like.

The police won't do anything. DS2 is 16. He's allowed to sleep with 30 year olds. It doesn't sound like the older man is coercing him. DS2 doesn't appear scared or upset apart from with DS1 and you

You need to meet the man and try to work out what's what

Is DS2s father around?

A 30 year old man with a 16 year old boy is a cause to be alarmed, there are literally thousands of gay men in London near his age this 30 year old can meet and connect with. What on earth is he getting out of being with a 16 year old on an actual relationship level.

Your older son has reacted angrily but also instinctively and reasonably tbh, it's at least shown this guy that he's in the families radar. Why is your son allowed to just say he's going to London and stay there? He's not an adult. He lives with you. I'd be letting this guy know you're notifying the police due to his age and the potential for future future, see if it makes him back off.

I would try not to get into an argument about him going to stay with the guy and getting him more upset. He’s still a child. I would try treating him like a child first and see if he will respond to a consequence. So telling your ds he’s grounded for the next week for going to London without permission. Has he also been rude? You could take his phone away for insolent behaviour as well. And then you’ll be able to check it to see if there’s any evidence.

I really think this is a police matter, the age is just a number thing is classic grooming.

Yeah i think your DS1 is the only person seeing this situation for what it is tbh.

Stop wringing your hands and call the police or the NSPCC or social services or his school or college please 🙏

And get his phone off him and Internet access supervised. He can have it back when he can be trusted not to go and meet creepy older men ffs.

He will be staying at the man’s home🙄

How awful to you. You need to get it in your son's head that he isn't an adult and that this man knows he is not an adult and is abusing him. I went with a 30 y o when I was 16. It makes me sick looking back on it

How long has DS2 been talking to this fully grown adult man who may be a pedophile.

While I don't think threatening anyone is OK, I completely understand DS1 wanting to protect his brother and doubt this man wants police involved.

DS2 is a child and Id be telling him, while you appreciate he feels embarassed but this reaction is a result of his sneaking around and lying. And that if he wants to be allowed to date this man he needs to bring him round and introduce him properly.. I say this because I think being completely rejecting of his love will estrange you and play into this mans hands. So make a suggestion to keep your enemy close.

No way would he being going to London for Easter.

Best of luck, and lovely DS1 so clearly loves his brother

Pointless taking his phone away. he will be able to buy a cheap pay as you go with his supermarket wages. He will also be able to use a computer at the library or a friends house.

He is under 18 so you can ask the police to do a Sarah's law check. If it's the same as Claire's law the man will not be told someone has asked to do a check on him. And I wouldn't have thought there would be any need to speak to your son unless something shows up, but I am not certain on these points so best to google an official website.

Can all the idiots stop having a go at the OP with the outrage?!! She’s clearly in a terribly difficult position and doesn’t want to make it worse, so is asking for ADVICE

homophobia or any other excuse it's convenient to throw at you

Homophobia isn’t convenient for gay people. HTH.