16yo ds seeing much older man in London, ds1 has made it 100x worse, dont know what to do know

[kettleonbutnoidea]

i dont even know where to start tbh this has all come out in the last couple of weeks and i feel like im constantly on the back foot

my ds2 is 16 (17 in summer) and has been talking to someone online for a while which I DIDNT KNOW about until recently. turns out its a man in his 30s living in london. ds says they have “met a few times” which actually means hes been getting the train down there on his own. i only found this out because his brother saw messages on his phone

before anyone says yes ive had the talk about safety etc but hes insisting its all fine and that hes happy. says im making it weird and that age is just a number which hasnt exactly reassured me

then ds1 (22) completely lost it. tracked the man down online and basically messaged him threatening him. i dont know exactly what was said but it was bad enough that the man replied saying he’d go to the police if it carried on. now ds2 is furious with all of us, says weve embarrassed him and is barely speaking to me

since then hes even more secretive and has said hes going to stay in london “for a bit” over easter. i feel sick writing that but i dont know if i can physically stop him and im worried if i push too hard he’ll just go anyway and cut me off

im stuck between thinking this is completely wrong and also not wanting to drive him further away

AIBU to be this worried or do i need to back off a bit now its all blown up?

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned or if it's relevant, but have a look at Claire's law and Sarah's law. Obviously not saying that this relationship is okay if nothing shows up on them, but if something does show up, it might show your son why you are so worried.

I have to disagree with you

How do you report someone if you don't actually have a name and address and no evidence that they've done anything illegal?

Not that I am saying OP should just wave her son off into the arms of this creep but.. theres a lot of folk saying stuff thats hugely impractical.

How do you stop a 16 year old from just walking out? At 16, I often did exactly that and the more hysterical and demanding and unreasonable Mother got, the more I would just up and fuck off out of it.

She'd try clever shit like taking the TV to work with her and locking me in the house whilst she went to work. I'd just climb out of the windows and removing the TV from the house was zero punishment as there was fuck all on I wanted to watch anyway.

You can't be a 16 year olds jailor, even back in the days before we had money and phones, it isn't practical and if you go so far as locking kids in the house you trip into abusive territory.

All you can do is talk to him, and listen to him, and keep on doing that.

If she locked him in the house he could call the police to get out

If she locks him in the house, removes his devices, etc and he leaves to go to this man, it will be very difficult for him to come back with his tail between his legs if he felt unsafe at any point.

If she is supportive. Listens to him. Makes an effort to meet the man, her son will be much more comfortable turning to her when this all turns to shit.

Exactly this and it throws up other points such as yes the relationship may be legal but if there’s any image sharing then for under 18s that is not legal.

Do not ever lock anyone anywhere.

Fire risk

Going to the police would be nuclear and I doubt your relationship will ever be the same again. Plus I’m not sure you or the police can stop him. I’d sit down and talk to him. Explain you are worried, you just want him to be safe, and that you’ll respect his decision if he can reassure you on a few issues…
you need to know who this man is, where he lives and a bit about him
sex must be safe
no drugs or sex parties
hes to answer your messages to let you know he’s ok.
If it’s just an age gap relationship it’s not great but not uncommon. It will run its course and fizzle out.
ETA make it clear if at any time it feels off with this man just come straight home and there’ll be no recrimination.

He was convicted of images involving the paedophile, who supplied them to him. I don't think the images were of Ryan.

Is Emmanuel Macron’s wife a paedophile?

Yes.

This.

This.

'(was it actually a good idea to lower the age of consent for gay men to 16? I couldn't possibly comment.)'

• well by that logic it's OK for 16yo girls to sleep with adult men, but not 16yo boys. I don't think either are OK, do you?

Why do you think girls should be legally allowed to have relationships with adult men though? It's unfortunately not uncommon for adult men to try and exploit girls this age and if the groomer establishes an emotional relationship and can be difficult for parents to intervene. This grey area also hurts girls and has affected major serious cases like the Rotherham gangs.

sounds like an incredibly difficult situation to navigate but I can’t understand how he was getting trains to meet this man. Surely once his location showed somewhere unfamiliar, you were wondering where the hell he was? Or did you miss seeing his location while dealing with something else?

It's interesting that on a recent thread I was on about 70s rock stars accused of sex worh under-16 girls, you said : 'I just cannot put a 14-year-old girl actively seeking out sexual relations of her own free will with a rock star ( who was probably only 10 or so years older, maybe less, than her) in the same category as a disgusting predator like Gary Glitter using pimped out pre-pubescent children.
I can't muster up any hate for the 20-something rock star who had sex with a willing 15-year-old.
In some cases, the age gap would be far less than ten years, anyway.'

Fascinating double standards...it's either wrong for adult men to have sex with under-18s and certainly under-16s of either sex, or it's not. Girls are just as deserving of protection as boys.

Are you assuming she has a location sharing with her son? I didn’t see OP mention that but I might have missed it

My grandparents, as is the case with many grandparents, were seen as a sweet old couple, married for 62 years. He was 6 years her senior at 21 when they first started "courting" as they used to say. When my grandad was on his deathbed, Mumsnet would have delighted in calling him a nonce and wouldn't have thought twice about it.

I shared your post with a friend of mine. A gay friend. His response was "Gay teenage boy attracted to older man - shocker!"

I have to say, that was my first reaction, too. It may well be grooming, but that'll be difficult to prove. The police won't take much interest without definitive evidence and without that, this is a LEGAL relationship, as much as that may horrify many. By the time an investigation is complete, your boy might be over 18 and deeply resentful towards you over this entire episode.

25% of male/male relationships have 10+ year age gaps, so that's worth bearing in mind, too.

Most of the comments want you to take the nuclear option, but he's successfully made it back from his visits to this person on multiple occasions. Try speaking to him on the phone. Ask to meet with him. He may not be the boogeyman you've convinced yourself he is. He may always be a predator/groomer to you, but at least you may be somewhat reassured.

Yes, I am assuming. I suppose it’s easily turned off if the teen wants to keep their location hidden.

Not everyone does that. I don’t.

Since Breck Bednar police do take grooming of boys online more seriously.

Grooming does not have to be of someone underage.

I don’t know if DS is being groomed or not but I do think you have cause for concern.

A mature 30something who learns that the 16 year old’s family are concerned would not respond by threatening to go to the police. They would back off.

Good on your son for looking out for his younger brother. You have had some good responses on this thread so please now get on and report this 30 year old man to the authorities. Safeguard your son.

Sixteen-year-olds are not fully adults and it’s absurd to treat them as if they are. Stop him going.

As he is not underage in the eyes of the law, it's a very difficult position for you. Any action that you take against the relationship will inevitably drive him further away and towards this man. It will be difficult but ensuring that you keep him close and are supportive will make it more likely that the relationship will eventually fizzle out. Definitely seek advice though from people who have experience of dealing with such matters as others have suggested.