AIBU to think primary schools should not audition children for choirs?

[LovelyBranches]

Dd is 9 and loves singing. She goes to her school choir after school group and goes to signing lessons outside of school. She has competed (and won) at the Eisteddfod.

Yesterday she came home from school very upset, unbeknownst to us she had auditioned for a place in her choirs Christmas show which will be on tv. She didn’t get in. There were 3 children in her year that didn’t get in. DD was devastated and very upset about it.

Today she came home upset because the teachers had taken the new choir group to practice and DD had no one in her usual friendship group to eat with. She ended up eating with another girl in her class who hasn’t been very nice to her recently.

I feel really upset for DD, she sings all the time and will tell anyone who listens how she wants to work in the theatre when she is older. I am aware that the school probably had a limited number of places but I feel like they should have given places to all year 6 and year 5 pupils rather than what they did which was allow year 6 and pick selectively between year 5 and 4.

AIBU to think that schools shouldn’t have auditions for choirs at primary school level.

In the outside choir different children get different solo’s. Nobody misses out.

So teach her that this one experience does not define her talents. Praise her for communicating her feelings. Show her how she can regulate herself when her body feels out of control.

I agree that having selection at that age is unnecessary. Especially when only three weren’t allowed to join. There’s plenty of time for elitism when older. Primary school kids are still little.

Resilience is “bouncebackability”. It’s not smiling through disappointment, or taking on more work (?). It’s her ability to feel disappointment, and then pick herself back up and move forward. That’s what you need to teach her.

She's 9! How do we know that it was because she wasn't 'good enough'? What was the criteria used for picking? It's not right to label a child at that age to make her feel less talented than her peers. I don't think football is a fair comparison. The arts are much more subjective and impossible to quantify - it's not like football where you can look at how often someone scores a goal. And before anyone says that you can tell if someone is not singing in tune, well, I think half of singers nowadays don't sing in tune, but that hasn't stopped them from being adored by millions. Even so, I think that football at that age shouldn't be so competitive - every child at that age, should be encouraged and given the same chance to shine as their peers. If not, the whole thing just borders on favouritism.

For what it’s worth I think posters on this thread are being quite harsh and would put my life on if it was their child in this situation they would feel the same especially if their child is good at the thing they’ve not been included in. In your opinion op (without being biased 🤣) and given your child does sing outside of school, do you think she is better than most of the children who have been picked? If so, I’d be curious to know why she actually hasn’t been picked?! Surely not good enough wouldn’t cut it if that’s the case. If she’s not as good as the other children I suppose it is something she will need to take on the chin and learn from! Xx

Which is a perfectly valid opinion to hold, but isn't the OP's take on life as she is entering her dd in Eisteddfods, which are competitive.

It is the only liking it when her dd is selected or when she wins, but thinking competition / selection is wrong when she doesn't that is making the OP unreasonable.

It might actually be the opposite too. If OP's daughter is talented and clearly has opportunities outside of school with solos etc then they may have picked the children who don't have those opportunities outside of school?

Then, instead of auditioning 9 year olds, they should consider drawing lots at random in such a situation. That would be fair.

Just to clarify, I didn’t enter my dd into the Eisteddfod. Her school did. Everyone who was in the choir was allowed to go and they won.

That’s life I’m afraid she isn’t always going to get picked for everything she auditions for there will always be people who are better than her. You wouldn’t be saying that school choirs should be banned if she had been picked so stop with the sour grapes and trying to spoil it for everyone else because your child didn’t get chosen.

@LovelyBranches have you reached out to the school and had a conversation about what took place/any context to the audition and selection? That might be useful if you haven't already. In the conversation, if you want to, you can use it as a learning exercise for the teacher(s) in that they might not have realised the impact of excluding 3 kids in a year group of 15 kids who wanted to take part, including your (lesser abled) child.

Op, if it were me, I would have a word and make my feelings known. The school needs to change their method of selection for children in that age group. It's not fair.

I have actually read all your posts! I can only assume you mean this…

skippy67 · Yesterday 22:38
“If your kid had got in you wouldn't have a problem with the selection process. I get it.”
“If my DD had got in I probably wouldn’t have known much about it. DD didn’t say she was going to be auditioning, I didn’t know anything about this until she burst into tears the second she saw me.”

Except that doesn’t really cover it. If you HAD known about it and your daughter had got in you wouldn’t have a problem with the process. It’s only because she didn’t make the cut that you think it’s unfair.

Seriously, you’re far too hung up on this.

And sometimes there are things that are wrong and need to be challenged. It is also the role of adults to model this and advocate for children.

True and healthy resilience is not taught, it is acquired through support, stability and security.

Op, I hear you and I think the way this has been handled by the school shows very poor judgement. The damaging situation they have created was foreseeable and avoidable. I would be unhappy too, especially in a context where they have a history of carelessness in their decision-making and judgement.

💐 op, there are some really harsh replies on here.

I get that your daughters disability is relevant because of what you both have been through, because of all the things she's already missed. Some people seem to have had an empathy bypass.

And it must be doubly hard for her to accept not making the cut as she knows she's good at singing because of her choir experience.

Big hugs to you. Maybe step away from the thread, I doubt it's helping.

I haven’t said once that the choir should be banned and have in fact argued for the choir to be inclusive a number of times, even if it means leaving my dd and her year group out

She is 8, so while technically a pre teen - just as a two year old is a pre teen - she isn’t a pre teen in the usual sense of the word. There are still other children to eat with at lunch, either in her year, or the un chosen in Y5 or the other pre teens in Y3.

You still haven’t explained why Y6 are all in the choir even though they won’t be in the school after July.

Not everyone is interested in going and it is on TV. Ideally, you'll probably want children who are actually interested in singing to be on TV.

When OP says 3 in her year didn't get in, there's also another 5 that didn't get in because they weren't interested in the first place. I imagine that is similar with Year 5 too.

Thank you. I appreciate your advice and will take it.

Then the school can simply draw lots out of those who are interested. A random selection process out of all interested 9 year olds when there are limited slots available seems the fairest way to do things in this case. I think that would be a lot easier for a child to accept than being judged on the basis of talent.

I can understand why you are so upset seeing your daughter crying. Knowing she is a good singer and is praised by her teacher outside of school, she must of thought she would obviously have a place.

Rejection is horrible and to be reminded of it everyday as her friends are all practising at lunchtime seems doubly cruel.

But! You need be strong for her and teach her that not everyone wins all of the time. Encourage to look forward and practice by throwing herself into her outside group. It’s their loss and her time to shine will come. Encourage her to sit with someone else at lunch, maybe someone who also sits alone. I think this is the most difficult part as it must feel like she’s been ostracised. If she continues to come home from school crying, I would speak to the school, not about her not getting in as that’s just part of life but how she’s struggling at lunchtime without her peers. 💐

How is that fairer when you still get the same number of children missing out?

There’s nothing intrinsically unfair about choosing the best people for something. And 9 is old enough to understand that there are people who were better than you on the day.

At what age should this stop? Do we draw lots for who gets to pass GCSE? Who is selected to play for Everton? And who gets to be a doctor? Tho I admit drawing lots for prime minister would give a better person than Liz Truss!

Reality hits. The TV show likely has a maximum capacity. If the school won’t adhere to that they’ll be deselected and none of their children get to go. So the choice is simple - should no children be allowed this opportunity just because not everyone can? Because even with drawing lots some children would still be excluded.

Am I right in saying that out of 15 children who go to choir, 3 children have been excluded? So 3 out of 15 children are not going on TV with the choir that they are usually a part of? On top of that, they will not be joining in rehearsals which go on for months, so will be excluded for months from an activity that the remaining 12 children are preparing for? That is SO wrong! You also say your child is in a wheelchair...Call me cynical but I'm starting to wonder if discrimination is coming into play here - wheelchair + television... does the school think it will spoil the aesthetic of the group?! What are the other two children who have been left out like?