AIBU to think primary schools should not audition children for choirs?

[LovelyBranches]

Dd is 9 and loves singing. She goes to her school choir after school group and goes to signing lessons outside of school. She has competed (and won) at the Eisteddfod.

Yesterday she came home from school very upset, unbeknownst to us she had auditioned for a place in her choirs Christmas show which will be on tv. She didn’t get in. There were 3 children in her year that didn’t get in. DD was devastated and very upset about it.

Today she came home upset because the teachers had taken the new choir group to practice and DD had no one in her usual friendship group to eat with. She ended up eating with another girl in her class who hasn’t been very nice to her recently.

I feel really upset for DD, she sings all the time and will tell anyone who listens how she wants to work in the theatre when she is older. I am aware that the school probably had a limited number of places but I feel like they should have given places to all year 6 and year 5 pupils rather than what they did which was allow year 6 and pick selectively between year 5 and 4.

AIBU to think that schools shouldn’t have auditions for choirs at primary school level.

Some children would be excluded through the drawing of lots, but the element of being judged worthy or unworthy would not come into play and I think that is what has upset Op's daughter so much. Choir at that age should be fun and inclusive. It's not an exam, it's not an 'elite' team. It's just kids singing together and enjoying themselves experiencing the joy of music. That's what it should be at the age of 9.

Would you say the same about sport, or is it just music where the best kids have to lose out?

I would say the same about sport.

Actually, let me qualify that. I would say that about sport for younger children - I personally feel that 9 is too young to be competitive but that's my personal opinion.

When I was at primary there was an audition choir that did competition and did very well. I auditioned in year 4 and 5 and didn't get in. I was disappointed. The choir rehearsed two lunch times a week, sat separately in assembly and had special hymn books for assembly. So it was a big thing for us.
I remember being a bit upset, but it's not a particularly painful memory.What I remember far more was dm making a bit of a thing about it, going overboard on comments about trying again and I felt very much rubbing it in when what I wanted to do was forget about it.
When I got in when I tried again in year 6 she was very dismissive of what I felt was a big achievement, which I found far more upsetting. I suspect it was because she knew dbro wouldn't get in as he was tone deaf so she was preparing for discouraging him from trying as there was no way he'd get in and he took failure very badly.

What I'm saying is if you are getting worked up about it, then it may well be a far harder experience for her than it should be.

If your daughter got picked and other children didn't. I get the impression it would not bother you. You are making it all about you.

You are not handling this at all well. Explain to your daughter that you are proud of her but this year others got in, and next year it may be her, and others will be left out.

Op, I actually think what you said about all of year 5 & 6 should have been entered rather than auditioning the Year 4s and 5s would have been the best and fairest solution where places were limited. The other alternative would have been to draw lots between the Year 4s and 5s but it would still have meant that a few kids from Year 4 or 5 were excluded from an event that the majority of the choir were taking part in, although the element of judging would have been omitted which would have been easier to stomach.

Can you imagine all the children being so excited about being on TV, talking about it at school and being that child who is left out of all the excitement and even possibly being teased for not being a part of it? The school have handled this really badly and forget resilience - this is about fairness and you need to speak to the school about it.

I would take this up with the school and ask if your daughter was excluded from being on tv on the basis of her disability.

Watch how quickly a space becomes available then.

I would actually go a step further and speak up for the other two children excluded as well because the whole situation is wrong.

primary school is hard - I remember my daughter was desperate to get in choir but with the teacher walking around and listening while all kids sung she did not get in. She had been doing stage school with singing lessons for years before this unsuccessful ‘audition’. I was also annoyed as she was devastated.
but upon reflection of primary - primary is where kids learn life is not fair and build resilience. My daughter got in choir the following year and it meant more to her.
if your daughter wants to do drama she’s going to need to get used to rejection for not good reason - can I suggest you give her some coping skills for that now after this experience.

What do you expect the school to do about it at this stage, though?

If there aren’t enough spaces, there aren’t enough spaces. They can hardly take places away from children who have already been told they have a place - that really would be unfair.

Fair enough to speak to the school about supporting OP’s daughter at lunchtime etc if she isn’t getting on with the children in her year who aren’t involved in choir, but not to try and force the school to make a different decision.

You're right that it's unlikely the school can do anything about it at this stage but they need to be made aware of it and to make sure that it doesn't happen again and to review how they allocate places in future. They can also be mindful that the three children who have been left out may need some support over the coming months when the other 12 children are off to rehearsals.

How about teaching your daughter to have dignity and hold her head high.

Butthurt and petulant is not a good look.

Yes, yabu

For goodness sake! When I was 10 I was off to high school, leaving behind my friends who were the same age as me but still at primary school. I had to find new people to eat lunch with. When I was younger and moved up a class I and a couple of other children were simply taken out of our class and sent to another one, we had to deal with it, which we did. I was not a sporty child and was always among the last to be picked for sports teams, it hasn't blighted my life one bit.

You really are doing your daughter no favours here. It's your job to teach her how to overcome disappointment and bounce back.

I’m thinking her ‘self-esteem’ is just fine. She obviously expected to be picked regardless of anyone else.
You should be encouraging her to understand that sometimes other people get chosen. Learning humility will be good for her, and you.

It must be a big choir if it contains the whole of Year 6, some of Year 5 and 15 of Year 4, so I agree that it sounds ridiculous leaving out just three in the year group - especially when it means those three are going to be excluded regularly right up to Christmas. The strong likelihood is that they're going to get some drop-outs, so it really couldn't do any harm to fit another three ion.

Poor kid has almost certainly learnt that lesson every time she does sports and games, given that she is also disabled. What a mean post.

Rather than being negative about the situation which your daughter will pick up on why not try and put a positive spin on it and teach your daughter that good things can come from what seems like a bad place. She could view as an opportunity to make new friends with some of the other 7 year 4s who aren’t part of the choir. Who knows maybe she’ll make a new best friend?

Absolutely any child of any ability should be able to sing in a school choir .

If you really thought they shouldn’t audition and be selective, you would have suggested that they should have drawn the names randomly from a hat, or something like that. The fact that you think they should have let all Y5 and Y6 in automatically just shows that really you’re only trying to think of a way that automatically included your DD. They probably wanted to include children from a wide age range anyway.

If it had been a football or dancing competition, wouldn’t you have thought it was reasonable to pick the best players/dancers?

It's hard for your daughter and I’m sorry she is disappointed, but that’s life. Presumably she'll get another chance next year.

Bench pressing at the gym and trolley pushing in Tesco's are not competitions!

Sometimes we want something very badly and don't get it. It's essential to learn this lesson while we're still a child, so we can develop the skills for handling disappointment. Of course it's sad that your child is devastated, but that doesn't mean the process is wrong.

DD will be picked another year.
Tell her you love her singing.
Ask her to sing many songs over the next few weeks.
It is all good practise for when she auditions again.

Lunch. Pack some extra cakes and say they are for her to share with her new lunch time mates.
She will soon learn that she is good at making new friends.

Help your daughter not be a bad sport. Help her to compliment the choir. You, too, say that they sound wonderful.
Express your wish that they will win.

Watch the competition on TV.
This will help DD's attitude in normalising the audition process and her confidence to try again next time.