AIBU to think primary schools should not audition children for choirs?

[LovelyBranches]

Dd is 9 and loves singing. She goes to her school choir after school group and goes to signing lessons outside of school. She has competed (and won) at the Eisteddfod.

Yesterday she came home from school very upset, unbeknownst to us she had auditioned for a place in her choirs Christmas show which will be on tv. She didn’t get in. There were 3 children in her year that didn’t get in. DD was devastated and very upset about it.

Today she came home upset because the teachers had taken the new choir group to practice and DD had no one in her usual friendship group to eat with. She ended up eating with another girl in her class who hasn’t been very nice to her recently.

I feel really upset for DD, she sings all the time and will tell anyone who listens how she wants to work in the theatre when she is older. I am aware that the school probably had a limited number of places but I feel like they should have given places to all year 6 and year 5 pupils rather than what they did which was allow year 6 and pick selectively between year 5 and 4.

AIBU to think that schools shouldn’t have auditions for choirs at primary school level.

When do the choir kids eat their lunch?

Ahh, I see.

Still, it may even be them who are enforcing the strict numbers rather than the school and if that is the case, what are they supposed to do?

If parents cause a headache for the teachers, they simply just won't do it again I imagine.

Sounds like they had to eat quickly

OP, the teachers decided to allow all of year 6 (last chance to participate) and the best of year 5&4. That’s not an unreasonable decision to make.

Your child is upset. That’s hard to take. But what you’re spectacularly failing to grasp is that a big part of your job as a parent is helping your child navigate disappointments. You can ignore what everyone here saying and continue to feed your child’s distress, but you’re being a poor parent if you do.

At lunch time, before choir practice. OP already said her child was eating lunch with her friend, friend finished and went to choir. OPs child sat with another child to finish her lunch.

I think you need to take a breath here OP.

There are 20 children in the year group and 8 of them aren't in this special choir. That's quite different to just three of them sitting on their own at lunchtime which is what you initially suggested.

Out of a class of 20, eight are left at lunchtime while choir practice is going on - and your DD doesn't have any friends in this group (which is nearly half the class)?

Also, of the children that tried to sign up, three didn't get given a place. That would suggest that perhaps your DD doesn't have the gift that you seem to think she does....

Does that mean she shouldn't join the choir? Of course not. There will be plenty of other choirs that she can take part in - as she already has. But clearly, a choir that's going on the TV and being filmed only has a select number of spaces and they want their best singers. The truth can be painful but you've said there are no other issues with her behaviour etc, so the only other answer is that she wasn't quite as good as the others. That's OK, she's only 9 and if she loves it as much as you say, she's got plenty of time to practice.

The issue here is that you're worried about her being sat on her own at lunchtime, right? That's the bit you need to address. If she really doesn't get on with any of the other seven children then ask the teacher for some ideas to help. Our school used to give children little helper jobs at lunchtime if they were struggling socially.

I have two disabled DC, one with very significant disabilities. I understand your dislike of the word resilience, I don't like it either. The world is difficult for little ones with a disability but it's our job to help them through it. And right now, your attitude isn't really helping much. I understand being sad for her - it's horrible when our kids are upset. But raging about the injustice really isn't fair to the other kids, and it won't help your DD get over this disappointment.

Again, I have a disabled child. Navigating disappointment is part of the day job. She can’t do so many of the things her friends do.

This is something she can do, but has been excluded from, and it’s really upset her.

@LovelyBranches I feel for your DD and it must be hard to see her upset. Unfortunately the world of competitive sports, music, theatre etc can be brutal. Auditions are tough and even a decent singer like your DD can have a bad day, especially children. But if places are limited it's likely to be the fairest way. Hopefully she'll get another chance next year. It wasn't a good audition this time, but what can she do to make sure she does well next year?

If she does want to pursue singing, this is something she'll need to get used to - and you, as a parent, as she'll only have more auditions, not less. Help build her resilience. Focus on the outside school music group if she's doing well there. See if there are other things she can do at lunchtime and if staff can support a bit if she's struggling with it. Does she have singing lessons, might she benefit from a bit of extra coaching?

It's always tempting to go into battle against something that's hurt your child and knocked their confidence. But that isn't going to help you, or her. If you did successfully kick up a stink and she was included because of that, how will she feel if it wasn't actually on her own merit?

Honestly I do understand it feels awful - I've one that's big into sports and even last year at age 15 he was in tears as soon as we shut the car door over being knocked out at a regional selection stage where he would have got the chance to try for national level. It really is tough when you see them train/practice and try so hard and in the moment it feels so unfair. But as parents, if they want to do things that are competitive performance based, part of our job is teaching handling setbacks and failures with grace.

But they aren’t excluding her. She auditioned and didn’t get in. That’s not the same as being deliberately excluded.

If the other two in the year who auditioned and didn’t get in were her friends, would she still have been so disappointed?

That’s rather harsh. Since you mentioned the Urdd, as teachers we would spend two Saturdays in March with our pupils in the first and second rounds to qualify for the national final during the Whitsun half term holiday. Also two evenings for the dancing rounds before the national Eisteddfod. All of that to give our pupils enriching experiences.

It’s difficult having to select say between 6 and 12 to take part in the folk dance, but the best dancers are always selected. Same with the choir - it was up to 40 singers for our category but smaller primaries have a separate competition with fewer singers.

If we were oversubscribed, we would first ensure that the pupils could commit to all rounds before giving them all the chance to show what they could do. Some can hold a tune and sing solo but can’t keep to their part in a two or three part composition in Years 3 and 4. We would practice two part singing in our weekly junior singing sessions so that many would be able keep to their part by Year 6. We were educators first and foremost.

Use this as a teachable moment to educate her about resilience. She can have the courage to face the adversity and next time she'll know what resources she can draw on to cope.

I used to run a kids performing arts group, my husband is a singing teacher & both my children now perform professionally.

in this instance OP I 1000% agree with you.

I’ve been in the situation where I had to audition kids at my group for a professional opportunity. I would never allow a situation where a tiny number from a cohort were rejected.

something similar happened to my own daughter in year 5. A special choir event that only happened every two years. my dd was one of the very few from year 5 who auditioned who didn’t get in due to numbers. The children who did get in teased her about it.

she convinced herself it was because she was rubbish but a few months later she got a lead role in a touring professional production & the next year was offered a place at full time musical theatre school.

in your instance op they should have taken all of year 5 & 6 and told year 4 they would get their opportunity in the future.

Her disability doesn't define what she can and can't do. Everyone is unique and has brilliant strengths.

Kindly, op you need to look at how to boost your daughter's self esteem and resilience. If she relies too heavy on extrinsic factors like her peers for her own self-esteem, she will struggle... She is struggling. Reinforce how you see that she's really sad and that is a shame, but she will get the chance to try against next year. She may not have made the choir yet, but there is always another chance. Etc etc.

Her worth does not come purely from this one hobby.

Please see my earlier comments about resilience. It’s a word I dislike and won’t be teaching my daughter to sit and suffer to look ‘resilient’

Please understand that this comment is actually ableist. Her disability very much does define what she can and can’t do and saying otherwise is akin to closing your eyes and saying la la la.

I did. You do realise that resilience is a huge indicator of wellbeing? Children that lack resilience struggle more in life.

I’m guessing if she’d got in you wouldn’t have a problem and would think it was all perfectly fair and reasonable….

This is exactly what I fear. I’m so sorry your dd got teased.

What about paralympians?

You just sound like you expected your daughter to get in and you want to throw your toys out of the pram until someone tells you it was grossly unfair and you're well within your rights to protest. This is aibu and I do think yabu.

Life isn't perfect. Better she fail now and learn how to develop a positive/growth mindset, than never fail and struggle when she's older.

I work with adults who were taught resilience culture from childhood and they are far more likely to burn out because they get leaned on to do more with fewer resources. They often manage it until something breaks and it’s usually them.

What about paralympians ? Again please can we stop with the ableism. Disabled people are not inspiration porn

I think we all understand that. No need to read the thread again.

What you are missing is that it is a parallel situation.
You are angry your dd wasn't picked to be part of the school choir for this one event. Posters are pointing out that in the 'outside choir' your dd had been selected to do solos on more than one occasion, therefore no doubt other dc in the choir have not been selected but you seem to be okay with them 'missing out' on that opportunity as in that scenario, your dd is 'the winner'.

I’ve already answered this so no need to guess-go back and look

I agree with you…….except for the bit about the venue maybe not being accessible. If that’s the case then things need to be done to make it accessible!

We had to audition for our school choir aged nine. I failed, it stung but not a disaster. Sometimes as Larsen said “oh well, maybe next time”.
And the lunch issue…… “never mind darling, it’s an opportunity to make some other friends”

But that's exactly it. Resilience is about knowing when you need to slow down.
The modern research on what resilience is isn't just having a tough skin and soldering on, having a happy take on things when time is tough etc until you break. Resilience is about the tools you use to bounce back and process during challenging situations. It isn't about rolling and powering on through.