AIBU to keep dating a man who doesn’t see his child?

[Enrie]

Hi all, so I’m in my late 20s, I have 2 children and I’m a single mum. Their dad is very much involved we have roughly 50/50 split on time and he contributes to all of their costs, I can’t really fault him. I don’t want more children, I’ve known that since I had my youngest 4 years ago.

A few months ago I started dating a man, he’s lovely, he has a normal good job, treats me very well. At the weekend we had a long chat about where things are going. He said he wanted to be honest about something before we take this any further and would understand if this put me off him.
He told me he has a 4 year old daughter with his ex, he explained he doesn’t see her and hasn’t seen her since she was a newborn. He told me he pays maintenance, he messages her mum every now and then to see if she needs anything.
I asked why doesn’t he see her and he explained that he was 23 when his ex found out she was pregnant, she had been on the pill but had been feeling unwell and being sick and they probably should have used a condom but it didn’t really occur to him at the time. When she told him she was pregnant he did want her to have an abortion as he wasn’t and still doesn’t feel ready for the responsibility of fatherhood. He explained that he does think it is a little unfair that had she wanted an abortion but him not she would have been able to have one anyway, but in reverse he got no say.
He told me he has at times wanted to meet his daughter and he is on her birth certificate but has always felt like he shouldn’t meet her unless he is fully prepared to step up and he didn’t feel he is. He also explained she lives down on the East Sussex coast and we are in London, so it wouldn’t be easy for him to fully step up.

Now I’m not looking for someone to be a dad to my kids, he hasn’t met them and I’m in no hurry for him to meet them. I also don’t want more children and I think a part of me does respect his explanation even if I don’t really respect his choice fully. We will stick to only seeing each other on the week I don’t have my children if I do decide to continue seeing him.

Anyway AIBU to want to keep seeing a man who has no relationship with his child?

This thread and this situation has nothing to do with adoption. And children don't become available for adoption because their mothers don't want them. That is the case in a tiny minority of cases.

I'd like to offer a different perspective from most commenters here from the other side of this.
I had twin baby girls 3 years ago, I was 21 when I found out I was pregnant, in the middle of my masters. Their dad and I had been in a relationship for over a year at the time, I was on the pill, and we had come to a mutual agreement that we would no longer use condoms. I had said multiple times to him, that should I end up pregnant I would have an abortion and when I said that I did mean it. When I found out I was pregnant I was fully prepared to have an abortion, until I was walking home from uni one day, and passed a church. My mum who died when I was a teenager, had been a devout catholic, I went in to light a candle for her as I often did, and I had this sudden wave of doubt. I no longer felt able to have an abortion, I thought of what my mum would say, and realised I just couldn't do it, I had this feeling that if I did, it would be a regret I would live with forever.
When I told my boyfriend he was upset, he felt misled, as we had only agreed to not use condoms on the basis that I had given him my word, that should I get pregnant, I would have an abortion. Upon reflection it was a silly and ill thought out promise to make, there was no way I could have known the feelings I would have. It was probably also a silly promise for him to believe, but we were young (yes I think 21 is young), we were in love and we didn't have any reason not to trust each other.
I offered him an out, I knew he didn't want this, he had goals and dreams and I was unilaterally making a choice that would prevent them and going back on a promise that was meant to protect them.
He has paid maintenance reliably, every single month, he often adds extra around their birthday or Christmas, has sent me a mother's day gift every year.

While I do feel sad, that he isn't involved and often wonder why he isn't, I know that is a choice I made. I do not think he is a bad man, he consented to sex without a condom on the basis of a promise I broke. I continued the pregnancy in full knowledge that he wouldn't be involved.

OP I can't say whether it would be unreasonable for you to date this man, but I do know that it's not always as black and white as mumsnet might like to present it as. I hope my ex finds love and happiness in his life, the way I have in our children. My only concern would be that you do have children, and do you really feel a partner who isn't in a place to fully accept children in his life is a good match? Even if you don't want him to be a dad to your children, it does mean you may not be aligned in life stage or values.

I'm baffled about how you can want a relationship with someone like this. He's immature, selfish, irresponsible and hurtful. Useless, spineless and sad. Oh, and intent on painting himself in the best light because he knows he's a wanker.

SO unattractive.

Someone's going to be daft enough to think he's a catch, I guess.

Are you serious? You would have have an extremely traumatising medical procedure just because a man can't be bothered stepping up or wearing a condom?

I really think it's disgusting to take the view that his ex should have terminated because he said so.

Personally I couldn't be with a man who fathered a child, has nothing to do with said child by choice and is making excuses like "Oh I didn't know if I wanted kids", "She lives too far away" etc.

Kids aren't disposable. When you split up with your ex did you consider just never seeing your kids again? I doubt it.

His behaviour towards his child is dreadful.

His attitude towards thinking he has the right to make an opinion on his ex’s body and medical choice is dreadful.

If you had an unplanned pregnancy he would undoubtedly leave you.

He wouldn’t be the man for me for sure.

He has no integrity so if you want to carry on dating him knowing that then its up to you

But the mother was able to choose whether to have an abortion, seek out an adoptive family for for the baby, or raise the baby herself.

And the father was able to choose whether he wrapped his dick or not. He lost the sole decision making factor when he knew that birth control was less effective but motored on for his 5 minutes of fun anyway... knowing the potential consequences.

The mother was forced to either give up her child completely (either termination, adoption etc) or forced to be a single mother.

You don't get to make a bad choice (not wearing a condom) and then try to condone the fact that you are actually a decent person you just don't want to face the consequences of said bad choice. So yes, the father had a choice... wrap it or bear the consequences. Whilst the mother should also have insisted on condoms, she isn't the one who has stepped out of her responsibilities or trying to play the blame game of forcing someone else to have a medical procedure.

The problem with this is that you are only taking 2 perspectives into account.

Yes, from a purely Mum + Dad perspective, it is unfair that one side has more of a choice. And yes, it is fair for the two of them that he says that if she decides yes, and he decides no, then .

But, you are missing the third person. The Child.

They had no say in this, and no choice over whether to be born. All they need is loving parents. Your husband may owe nothing to the mum beyond financial help.. but what does he owe to the child? Who will grow up without a dad in their life?

That is where it becomes an immoral and selfish choice. Not because he chose himeslf and his life over the mum's wishes... but because he chose himself and his lifestyle over a child's needs.

So yes, I think, as do most, that this says volumes about him.

Does his mum have a relationship with her granddaughter?

I'm not sure why you would have agreed with the posters saying that him refusing to ever see his own child is a terrible thing to do before you met him but now you think what he has done is OK.

It obviously isn't OK. It sounds as though he and his ex were in a long-term relationship and he made a decision not to use a condom. An abortion is a much bigger deal for the pregnant woman than for the father and his argument that if she had wanted an abortion but he didn't, she would be able to do this without his permission is ridiculous. He is just trying to make himself the victim here.

Even the most deadbeat of dads normally have some sort of relationship with their children. Your boyfriend is in another league of shit dads and it would absolutely repulse me.

Couldn’t continue with someone so selfish, sorry.

Red flags on his view that men should have a say over abortion and that he’s trying to turn his awful behaviour into a little tale of woe like he’s the wronged one.

Baffling that he’s nice enough to put a bit extra in your bank for their birthday /Christmas and go as far as to send you a Mothers Day gift. He’s basically remembering these things, not just letting a standing order leave his bank each month, yet in all those years he hasn’t once thought to reach out and actually meet his children?

Incredibly selfless of you to let him off so to speak but the guy is still a prick I’m afraid, irrespective of the regular cash. He’s a bit older and wiser now, you’d think he would want to know his children. Perhaps he will in the coming years, I hope so.

You sounds like you've got a really positive co-parenting relationship and that's a great example to set to your kids. So why can't you see that a man who abandoned his ex and his child is a terrible example of how to treat other people? What if your ex went "I'm too young, I can't deal with this" and left you to pick up all the pieces?

Think you've got dickblindness. He is not a good man.

There's not a bone in my body that would react to that story with anything other than disgust.

1. He thinks he should have had a day in her having an abortion, nope. Her body her choice and the fact he doesn't immediately see that, red flag.

1. Hasn't seen her since a newborn, absolutely no empathy towards his own sml child.

1. Didn't and still doesn't feel ready for that responsibility. Once a child is here you don't get that choice,.you grow tf up and he wasn't able to do that.

1. He wouldn't be coming near me with anything containing sperm.

I couldn't like or respect someone holding and demonstrating those views and I certainly wouldn't be keen for sex with him. Whether he treats me nice and has a normal job or not. The bar is in hell.

My DD16 has not seen her dad since she was 2. We all think he is an asshole. HTH

It's completely different!
Personally I think it's better for the mother and the potential child to terminate a pregnancy than go through childbirth and give a child up, even if it sounds like a lovely ending. But if a woman does do that, they are making a considered decision in the best interest of the child and doing as much as they can to ensure the child will be raised by people who want and love them, and are vetted, safe and good people. A man fucking off after making a woman pregnant is doing NONE of that. They are simply making a cowardly decision in their OWN interests with no consideration of what's best for the child. There is no comparison.

Cool so you would have an abortion so he didn’t have to wear condoms? The pick me girls are out in force today. Where did everyone’s self esteem go?!

Not necessarily a deal breaker for me.
I'd want his version of events confirmed though. Most definitely.

Some men are such shit fathers that the kids are better off without.
For example, the (unwanted) child borne from a cannabis addicted cocklodging waste of space who refuses a job would be better off if he hadn't stepped up to the plate as he is likely to cause a lot of issues and invite chaos and drama.

So the idea of making every man stick around no matter how shit he is is bonkers.
He's stuck around so he's decent! Pull the other one.

The OP's boyfriend has a certain level of awareness to realise that he'd be no good for a child he didn't want so that's a plus.

I'm sorry, no, an abortion is not a choice for some women. Abstinence is always a choice.

He had full control of where he deposited his sperm and that's where his choice and control of becoming a parent ends. A man cannot expect an abortion to be on the table as an absolution to his responsibility, that's bullshit.

He has ruminate at all, he has excused himself.

OP, why would a "man" who has met his beautiful, innocent, precious newborn baby daughter and walked away from her, not walk away from you without a second glance?

I could never, ever, ever do it. Regardless of what he says the circumstances are. I just couldn't believe a word he says. Does his mum have contact with her granddaughter, or the rest of his family?

No, a man who sticks around isn't immediately a decent man. Nor is a mother automatically decent for bringing a child into this world.

But lots of different things add up to being a decent person. As far as we are aware, the OPs new man didn't walk away because he was a drug addict... he walked away because he couldn't be bothered with a condom and couldn't be bothered being a Dad. Not even contemplating making any effort aside from throwing money at his ex. That's not decent.

Agreed with this. As part of being pro-choice, one needs to respect women's choice.

The man's choice is whether to have sex, and whether to use barrier contraception.

And you'd be cool dating a man who was so hopeless that his presence in his child's life would be a net detriment to that child?
Raise your standards.

Your boyfriend thinks a child he created because he didn't bother to wear a condom is disposable.

The child's mother knew her birth control wasn't going to be as effective when she was sick too. She could have refused to have unprotected sex.

IDK about anyone else but when that happened to me, partner either wore a condom or took care of himself. I also got pregnant when a condom split during a change of birth control.

The child's mother knew her birth control wasn't going to be as effective when she was sick too. She could have refused to have unprotected sex.

Well yeah but she knew the consequences would be at her feet in the event of pregnancy, whether that was termination or birthing the child, she didn't just shrug knowing someone else would deal with it.