15 Minutes expected before you begin

[ThatPearlkitty]

Inspired by another thread but a separate topic when eg the role is 9 to 5 paid hourly then why do some employers want people eg 15 mins before your actual start time why dont they pay for your time before then, yes i understand most roles is necessary eg coat, get ready for the day etc but then its free labour ?

@ThatPearlkitty i find it mind boggling people work for employers with these rules.

Can't they just say that you should actually be starting work at 9. Not the faffing around but actually working

Then maybe the employer should not allow drinks to be made at work? Then there would be uproar about that. No one NEEDS to be able to make tea all day. And obviously many jobs you can’t be making and drinking tea all day. So would employees be happy if it stopped being allowed?

I’ve also been self employed in my life. In my particular job I was only paid a % of the income I generated. So I didn’t get paid for any setting up or closing down etc. If I was not actively doing my job, I did not earn any money. If I had gaps in the day, they were not paid.

In my last job I loved the culture. Everyone just did their work and there was also a lot of flexibility. No one took the piss. We were officially paid 15 mins before and after work for setting up and closing down etc. But if some days you needed to be there earlier or stay a bit later people just did it. Equally, if your day ended early you could just leave (within reason. Anything up to an hour was fine). I can guarantee if someone had started getting arsey about the odd extra 15 mins, the being allowed to leave early would have stopped. A lot of the time employees really shoot themselves in the foot being too picky about the odd 5 mins.

Coat, coffee etc - fair enough if that's on your own time but logging in is part of your job. It's not an optional extra that you're choosing to do for your own comfort. That needs to be on company time.

Is it not that you have to make sure you are ready to work at the start time? So if you start at 9am, you should be either at your desk at 9am with your cuppa or whatever, rather than swanning in at 9am and then spending the next 10 or so minutes putting your stuff away and making your drink.

Should they have to pay you to take your coat off and make the first coffee of the day? I think it's reasonable to say you should be at your desk at 9am ready to log on. The 15 minutes early isn't fair.

Try working in a school. If we try to push back we either get guilt tripped or brushed off. No surprise that many TAs are leaving!

I can’t believe so many people are saying you should be logged in before your start time. I’ll log in during work time, thanks - not in my own time! At 9 you should be at your desk ready to log in.

Yes and no. No one actually worked like that as base, as we were all adults. But there were times where industrial actions were imposed by our regulating groups, and then yes, it was unbelievably petty. No one liked it. In fact it was balls and stopped us doing what we wanted, if you rocked up early then the preference would have been going in and having a quick personal chat with friends on the current shift prior to handover or whatnot. Not standing around like a bunch of lemons outside the door watching the clock so we could open the door and go in.

However, to your point about that not being tolerated, promotions etc, I don’t believe you have the concept of supporting overall industrial action to protect/better your working conditions. You don’t break rank, that’s the point. If it’s everyone, then there can’t be any blowback in the way you are referring, and that’s why it’s important, as shit as it may personally be, that you suck it up and indulge such directed pettiness in those instances.

I expect they are very quiet when people are sat for an extra 15 mins finishing up at the end of the day.

This is something that I struggle with. I am quite literal and in my head the start time is the start time. This can also make me quite stubborn about some things.

I don't drink coffee as soon as I get to work and if my crappy computer takes 5 mins to fire-up, that is their problem.

I am good at my job and pretty indispensible. I don't need to be patronised.

Employers that treat employees in this way are exploitative and will only create disatisfaction and poor morale.

One of the reasons I stick with my job is because we are trusted and treated like the responsible adults that we are, not school kids.

Many many years ago, I had a call centre job out of uni. This was how it was for us but not specified time, which was fine but we had to stay logged in until the exact end time. So if you finished at 6 and got a call through at 5.59 you couldn't refuse to answer it. Sometimes they'd be quick calls but could take 10-20 minutes. The amount of time it happened added up. It was a bit mean.

That sort of thing still must happen though. Can you imagine being on the 999 call lines giving someone help and u just put the phone down as it's turned 6pm?

So people ready to work at their start time

I'm sure they could stagger shifts and work it out. I wasn't doing anything vital. It was a bank. People ranting about bills usually.

What I mean is, it surely isn't fair to make someone answer a call 1 minute before their end of shift.

@Smouty84If you couldn't charge for your prep time or weren't able to adjust your rates whilst 'on the tools' to reflect the additional invisible labour time spent on admin, prep etc then either the business wasn't viable or you were massively underselling yourself.

As for cups of tea being allowed, it would make no difference to me: I bring a water bottle as I don't like hot drinks.
However, it would be a pretty awful place to work that actively counts the minutes away from your desk to return some cups when it is an action that makes the space a cleaner, tidier place for all. It would also be slightly counterproductive, l suspect, to remove caffeine from your workforce, if you went down the route of banning tea and coffee completely.

I always find these threads quite sad, as it's always a race to the bottom. If you don't get your packing down time paid, the solution isn't to cry it's unreasonable for others to expect it. The solution is to challenge this in your own workplace and demand it too. If it's a work activity, it needs to be on paid time. Stopping drinks or limiting toilet breaks is inhumane.

If you did an early shift at nursery where I worked you were expecting to start work 15: minutes before you got paid. So to allow time for putting coat away/ signing in, putting your phone in the office you'd actually begin 20 to 25 minutes early.
I suppose we could have refused but this time was used to set up the breakfast trolley/ get sheets for sleep time and open the room. It pissed me off as I was always on an early shift. That's one of the reasons why I don't work there anymore.

When I worked retail we had to be there 10/15 mins early to get signed in (had to declare our electronics as it was cex). Had to go put our stuff away, go toilet and cash in our tills. Sucked but had to be done so you could begin on time.

I don’t need to be there 15 minutes before but I usually am only because it give me time to make myself a tea and have a chat before getting on with my day.
plus it means that if I’m delayed I have those 15 minutes leeway .

If it's anything like my workplace it takes people that length of time to eat breakfast, make coffee, talk about the football, go to the loo and generally faff about.

And that's even before they turn on their laptop!

Be thankful you’re not a police officer. We only get paid after the first 30 minutes working over on a shift as we have do half an hour for the queen (king now I suppose) not really a gripe but can be irritating especially when most of us get in early to make sure the team before us can get away. It’s just part of the job though and I’ve always had supervisors who look after you in other ways. It’s all about give and take I think.

I used to be a dental hygienist. You often earn a % of what the patient pays. The dentist who owns the practice normally decides what that is. Now. Whether or not that’s right is a whole other story. But for a hell of a lot of practices if you told them you wanted a higher rate they’d just tell you to bugger off and they’d find someone else to work for less. It used to be pretty well paid. It’s definitely not as good now. My “average hourly rate” in 15 years only went up £2 an hour. Plus some days you’d have many cancellations so you’d earn less than the practice cleaner even though you’d sat there for 5 out of 8 hours doing nothing. Anyway I’m out of it now and in a nice employed job!

In my view (am I'm no lawyer), if your mandated arrival time is 8.45 a.m. then you should be paid for that time. It is lazy management to say this is so that everyone will be ready at 9.00. As others have said, if your start time is 9.00 a.m. then you should be ready to work at 9.00, which includes logged on, hot drink made, etc. If Line Managers managed better they could easily see who is not ready at 9.00 and deal with those people appropriately.

When we used to have to clock in you were expected to clock in 5 mins before, but only got pay docked if it was after the hour. But there was no opportunity for a coffee or a chat you were expected to go straight to your machine, although that was quite loud at times with people shouting their hellos.

I would take it as advisory but be sure to be at my desk by 9. What are the consequences of not being there at quarter to? I can't see they could do much if you are working at 9 every day.