15 Minutes expected before you begin

[ThatPearlkitty]

Inspired by another thread but a separate topic when eg the role is 9 to 5 paid hourly then why do some employers want people eg 15 mins before your actual start time why dont they pay for your time before then, yes i understand most roles is necessary eg coat, get ready for the day etc but then its free labour ?

It’s not a fresh debate though. People have explained it to you. Don’t do it if you don’t want to but if your employer has this policy and you don’t do it, it won’t be an issue for long

@LiviaDrusillaAugusta somehow it appears that we are blowing against the wind here😂

Apparently so 😂😂😂

Oh well!!😂

Because you should be ready to start work at your official time (including being logged in, coffee made if necessary, coat hung up etc). And some employers make the 15 minute rule because people take the piss so they have to do it

Nope. Logging in IS a work action, therefore there is zero issue with logging in commencing the second they start paying you. If you choose to do so beforehand, then well and good, but you can’t be made to perform a work action on your own time.

Similarly, I’ve worked in situations where your uniform is kept secured in the workplace, and you must get changed there into the work uniform that you have no access to other than at the workplace, and theoretically you then have zero obligation to get changed before the second they start paying you. Up to the individual if they would like to get changed prior. That’s certainly not the case if you get to take your uniform home though.

Obviously, hanging coats up, making coffee or doing whatever is done in your own time before your paid commencement time.

Yes that's the point I am trying to make not necessarily logging in but being ready to work at contracted time.
As in ready to work when your time begins.

But what is your definition of ‘ready to work’? As I have pointed out ‘ready to work’ can technically mean now starting to get changed into your uniform and then going to log in, so let’s say 10mins if change rooms are close to work area.

Logging in is definitely work time. Why should you give free time to get computer system going? They choose the system and where I worked you had to start up, which took a while, log into various programs etc and could sometimes take 10 mins to do! Definitely work time. Be at desk, work station etc yes, but that’s it.

Taking coat of is different from logging on to a pc

if the start time is 9am then that is the time the pc is turned on, it might take 19 minutes for that to happen but that’s a work issue

its not legal for a company to expect free time for turning on their equipment, whether that be a pc or a floor polishing machine

If you’re in the uk then logging on etc is “prep” and therefore paid was there not a decision on this not that long ago? All comes down to places actually implementing this mind you

Back in the 90s we’d start each other’s computers, sign each other in and move computer chairs to look like our colleagues were in the building even though they weren’t actually in the building yet.
Happy days

YANBU Workplaces expect 150% these days and grind people into the ground. They shouldn’t also expect them to work for free.

Don't most people just set off from home at a fixed time with a bit of margin in the expected travel time and generally arrive five to ten minutes before the start of work?
That's what I do and depending on random factors I am sitting down at my desk a few minutes early, so I just start my day of work.
Mandating 15 minutes seems a bit excessive, but so do some of the responses suggesting we should withhold al labour until exactly 08:00 or whatever time

There are some weird conceptions of work on this thread. Logging in is work. If a computer system is slow, and takes half an hour to load, should an employee really have to give that time for free? Equally, maintaining collegial relationships is work, and I count the time my team spend engaging in pleasantries with each other as work. Yes, it can be excessive and get in the way of core functions, and that can be addressed, but pretty much the only things I've seen on this thread that from my perspective the employer should not pay for are making a drink (how many people do that? Maybe lots? I don't know) and taking off one's coat (how long does that take?). Even changing into a uniform, if it has to be done in the workplace, should be accounted as work, as it is a workplace activity.

Far beyond this, though, employers who treat their teams like people have higher loyalty and lower recruitment costs, happier teams, less sickness. Making everyone pay for one pisstaker, rather than addressing the pisstaking directly, is terrible management.

You should be sat at your desk by 9 ready to work. A lot of people waltz in at 9 faff around making a drink, toilet some cheeky F’s have a fag break then start working 10-15 mins later so yeh I get it

Here’s a question for those insisting they should be paid for getting ready for work. Do you start getting ready to leave before your finish time or do you start getting ready to leave at 5? The amount of people I see who start taking cups to the kitchen at 4.45 and putting their stuff in the bag and going to toilet etc. Logging off things and getting their coat on. Then dead on 5 they jump up and leave. So they “wasted” 15 mins of the employers time getting ready to leave. So I think a lot of these people end up wasting 30 mins over the day at least. But that’s ok I’m sure in their eyes.

Sorry @ThatPearlkitty i didn’t actually mean to quote you there. Pressed the wrong button.

if someone actually told me to come in at 8.45 to start at 9 i would be quite annoyed.
if i get there 8 minutes before start time I am pleased with myself,

But you're not giving free time. You need to be ready to start work at 9 o'clock, so obviously you need to come in before that to get ready.

I start at 9, but usually get in at 8.30, have a coffee, look at my day and make sure everything is set up.

Flexibility works both ways. So yes, I expect my staff to be at work, ready to start, at the allocated time. That means they probably do come in 10 minutes early. Equally, they get plenty of paid time off for life admin, such as Drs, dentists, school events, trades in their home etc, sent home if it’s really quiet. It is mutual respect and it works both ways.
If I had an employee who insisted, like some on here seem to, on ONLY working their contracted hours and not a minute more, then I wouldn’t be giving them time off for life admin unless they took annual leave.

This all sounds unbelievably petty. It would drive me mad working with people who clock watch to this level. No-one would ever progress or get promoted if their main priority was ensuring that they don't work a minute more than they are being paid for.

Exactly. This sounds like every professional workplace I have experienced.

we dont get time off for dentists/doctors etc. without making up the time
so it does not go both ways with my new micro manager

and sent home if its quiet?
unheard of

I worked somewhere where’s the staff repeatedly asked if we could be paid say from 8.45am so that we had set up time. The boss said no. We were also not paid for one hour during lunchtime. I cannot tell you how many times senior staff asked where I had been on my unpaid lunch hour, or why I only came into work 5- 10 minutes before I was paid to do so.
I told them many times that I would be happy to start at 8:45am and be available during lunch break, if they paid me. The answer was always
the same, we really could have done with your help, but no we are not paying you.
The real kick in the teeth was the discrepancy between pay.

I don’t get paid time off for any appointments.
I recently had my dentist appointment cancelled for which I had booked annual leave. I’ve had to reschedule it for my next day of annual leave.
I agree that flexibly works both ways.

As a self-employed worker, when I am working on jobs where I'm charging by the hr/half hr (rather than price work), the meter starts when I arrive and stops as I leave. Both the setting up and packing down/tidying up are very much part of the job. I don't see how it is different for PAYE? If your employer wants the cups returned to the kitchen and the computers shut down, then this needs to be done as the finish time approaches. If they have other people to cover these jobs, then it's fair enough to expect you to be bashing away at your keyboard until the bitter end.
As for going to the toilet, it's a pretty shit employer who gets funny about people needing to use it during the working day. If it's ok to go at 11am or 3pm, why would it be a problem at 4.45?
The getting coats on is ridiculous as it is such a quick action that whenever it happens, it makes a negligible difference to either party.