AIBU to feel uneasy about DH’s close friendship with another mum?

[Underbeliever]

Hi all, my DH and I have one daughter, she has just turned 5 and is in reception. Since Christmas we changed up our working hours, now DH finishes early on a Wednesday and Friday, these are the days DD has gymnastics and swimming so DH gets her from school and takes her straight on to them.
The issue is I feel he has developed a close friendship that feels somewhat too close to me with another parent.
This other parent is a bit younger than most of the parents of DDs classmates, I don’t know her massively well, she will smile and pass a comment at pick up, I’ve chatted to her a little at the big class parties but she has her own friends and I do mine. DD has never asked for a play date with her daughter so I’ve never felt the need to get any closer to her than that.
I think she is mid-20s and she is frankly stunning, it’s hard to not see that about her! I also know she is single.

Anyway by sheer coincidence and it’s been this way since the start of the school year when I used to do the Wednesday and Friday pick up, her daughter is in the same gymnastics class and swim lesson group as our DD. For the entire first term we hardly spoke, we would both sit in the viewing area for the swimming and I’d just read my book, we did our drop offs at gymnastics and maybe smiled but nothing more.
Now DH is doing it he seems to have gotten very close to her

1. On a Wednesday our local tennis club has an afternoon social, it’s mainly stay at home mums, retirees and the odd shift worker who might not get to the evening socials. DH and this mum both go to this. It finishes just in time for school pick up
2. While the kids are in gymnastics, they meet up and go to M&S, DH does our mid week shop but they also seem to gran a coffee while they wait, it’s in the same retail park as the gymnastics so I get they may just happen to both be doing the same thing, but this never happened when I was doing the gymnastics run!
3. On a Friday he told me they sit together while the girls do their swimming, taking turns to buy the coffees from the cafe

I still see her the other 3 days of the week on the school run, we still don’t really chat, so it doesn’t feel like it’s just our families getting closer.

Now on Easter Saturday I have a wedding to go to, DD isn’t invited and it’s my old uni friend so we decided DH would just stay home with DD. He has told me he and this mum are going to take the girls to an Easter egg hunt at a national trust site while I’m at the wedding, just them and the kids.

While I don’t think it has turned to anything physical yet, and I do trust DH not to cheat. It does feel like an emotional affair.
Anytime I mention to DH it makes me uncomfortable he says I’m being weird and he is DDs parent too and has just as much right as I do to be friends with her classmates parents, especially in a situation like this where they end up seeing each other incidentally quite often.

AIBU to be uncomfortable with this?

Surely age makes you less naive about this stuff. I have witnessed too many work place affairs to list. An old flatmates boss would bring his toddler to our flat to meet up with my flatmate. They had to stop that when the child became verbal 🙄.

A friend I don’t see any more had a long term passionate affair with a school dad. They were actually couple friends the two couples went on holiday with their families and the affair partners crept off to shag. It happens. Just because you are super smug it won’t happen to you doesn’t mean those of us that are less naive are friendless neurotic weirdos!

If there was something going on or brewing, it suits everyone if on the surface it’s all friendly. Makes it much easier and if they are developing an attraction, can now hide in plain sight.

I am in the more cynical category of not being able to think of any man ever ( including my ex husband) that would befriend, hang out with, defend, seek out, a women they didn’t find attractive.

So I’d be on your guard but hope it works out.

OP you seem really level headed and sensible.
I think you’re doing the right thing. Don’t drop your guard completely though.

Absolutely.
I know how these things work.
Let's be honest here, most men don't want to be friends with women full stop.

Sure they can be fond of them, like them, be good colleagues, enjoy their company in a group setting, but friends? No.

It's f-ing bullshit. They don't want to sleep with me, doncha know! Like hell they don't.

Do please update us in 6mo, OP.

The other scenario, which is more common IMO but no-one seems to think about on here, is that one party is keen on the other and the other is fairly oblivious. This happened to my husband a couple of times over the years, and because we have male/female friends and because we are fairly relaxed, the fact one person might start seeing something in friendliness or more contact wasn't immediately obvious- til it was. I remember him coming back with some alarm from work and saying what shall I do, this new 'friend' who he'd given a lift to a few times as she was a single parent, couldn't drive, suddenly changed her work so she could see him more, arranged to go to a conference he was attending and then suggested they book rooms next to each other. He was quite alarmed at this point, cancelled his attendance, and just took it back to being approachable but no more lifts at work. Problem solved.

Not everyone can see these things coming, I can and I've spend decades of my working life avoiding being in slightly compromising situations with eligible men, not 100's of them, but every couple of years up one pops to suggest a nightcap at a conference, or that we start going out just the two of us, and I always say no, even if they want to be good friends because I find it easier to give unambiguous signals to people rather than try to negotiate after the fact. I have, despite this, made a couple of men friends at work and have many friendly colleagues who I get on with but I don't seek them out or arrange to do things on Easter Sunday (a family day!) I see them occasionally for the odd lunch and part of a bigger group.

I have lots of opportunities to cheat if I wanted as I work with a lot of men and am away a lot, and many do, you have to think these things through and not assume either good or bad intentions- it might be the OP's husband was taken aback by the suggestion that it's untoward and is delighted the OP is now involved in the friendship, I bet my bottom dollar the single mum does not suddenly want to hang out so much any more. Could be wrong, but I've seen this play out many times.

I'm curious as to what the cool wives definition of 'friends with the opposite sex' is.
(I'm going to say that my definition of friend is somebody who will help me in a crisis. Everybody else is an acquaintance).

Is it just being fond of a man, being good colleagues with him, regularly spending time together with him in a group setting? Giving dh's friends a lift?
If so, then that's what I do, too.
Only I'd call them acquaintances.

What I most definitely do not do, though, is spend time with them alone and to be honest if one of the guys I see in a social setting asked me to do this, I'd be taken aback.
I think this is a crossing of an implicit boundary and to be honest except in some Pollyanna-esque la la land this is how it is for most people.

Most people would not put up with their spouse having regular social meet ups 'just for shits and giggles' and long late night giggly chats with a member of the opposite sex. They just fucking wouldn't.

I agree with the above two posts as I hope a pretty average 50 something in a happy long marriage where we both have lots of friends old and new DH actually gets on really well with women and has longstanding women friends from uni. The situation as described is definitely outside the realm of normal interaction.

As you say, those aren’t friends, they’re acquaintances. I’d find a friend I only allowed myself to see in a group setting deeply weird. I see my male friends as I see my female ones — sometimes in large or small groups, but also individually, to see a film, go climbing, take the children somewhere, for a coffee or a drink. I was supposed to be driving to another county with one friend this evening to stay overnight so we could make an early start on a climb tomorrow, but as DH is unexpectedly home for the weekend (he was going to be away for work but had to come back sooner for a meeting), I’ve postponed so I can spend a bit of time with him.

Weird?
Depends on your perspective.
Somebody mentioned moral fibre up thread but it's not really about that.
For example, murder, for the vast majority of people, is not a natural thing to do unless under extreme circumstances which hopefully never happen.

Monogamy is arguably not natural. It isn't. It's only really necessary when raising children so no more children are added to the mix.
Because it's not natural, there has to be societal norms about it and barriers to it.

(Plus, of course, sexual infidelity is nowhere near as abhorrent as murder.)

One of which being not to spend too much time one on one with a member of the opposite sex because attraction can grow over time and often does particularly if you like them enough in the first place to spend time with them.

This spending time regularly with men friends alone is a very new thing. It really is.

You do you but please don't say that it's weird for others to think differently.
It isn't.

It can be argued that Infidelity is far, far too common an occurrence for it not to be natural.
So people would be wise not to put themselves in situations where attraction can grow and opportunity is present.

You're probably gonna say you don't feel that way about your male friends, but, respectfully you have no clue what they're thinking.
You may think you do but you don't.
Not saying anything will happen as obviously you'd have to agree to it. One day, though, they may make a clumsy pass and it'll be awkward.
You've got no more ability to read anyone else's mind than anyone else here.

I think you're right. If naive, a doormat or gullible it's lovely to think these things don't happen. I also knew someone who went on holiday with a group and was shagging one of the dads every night, their dps believed their story that they were just friends fgs until they were caught knickers down .

My male friend is here now doing some diy for us and dh is out. So I am completely au fait with 'we don't all chase people' outrage but some people indeed do and it's being alert to the attention seeking desperados that is a good idea imo.

Most people would not put up with their spouse having regular social meet ups 'just for shits and giggles' and long late night giggly chats with a member of the opposite sex. They just fucking wouldn't.

Most people I know would. It's par for the course. I hang out with friends one-on-one when it's interest-based (I go to gigs with one friend - DP doesn't like the genre - and we'll have a meal beforehand and a drink afterwards; same with another friend and the cinema), or situational (another friend used to work round the corner from me so we'd have lunch/post-work drinks together all the time). Or sometimes it's just about who's both free on a particular evening given how everyone's juggling a million commitments these days.

These friends aren't just men - they're male and female friends. The socialising is functionally exactly the same except some of them have deeper voices. Going to a gig with a male friend is the exact same experience as going with a female friend. Not everyone alters their behaviour in the presence of the opposite sex.

Not saying anything will happen as obviously you'd have to agree to it. One day, though, they may make a clumsy pass and it'll be awkward.

Well then we'll cross that bridge when we come to it rather than pre-empting it (after 15 years of that bridge not existing). Men have made awkward passes at me on many occasions and it's not a big deal to move on from. Sometimes the friendship hasn't survived, sometimes it has. I don't need to speculate about it.

I would plan a date night with my husband, if you haven't had one in a while, and ask her to babysit.

Quite seriously why?

This woman already occupies far too much space in the relationship of OP and her H. OP should be trying to unentagle their involvement with her rather than drawing her further into their lives.

You are going to gigs and interests with acquaintances where I agree gender may not matter, however, I maintain if there was no specific reason to meet with an opposite sex person on a regular basis and have late night giggly conversations with them regularly, most people would not be happy with their spouse doing this.
Not for a moment.
15 years is nothing. Not quite enough for a guy to cry on his female friend's shoulder when his marriage breaks down and be all vulnerable and needy and pissing her spouse off in doing so.

I'm really struck by the naivety (and yes a little bit of arrogance) here by the cool wives. I'm not saying that phrase to be derogatory as such, it's just a phrase most people understand here.
36% of people according to The World Population review have cheated on their partner at least once.
Those are the ones who've admitted- and there's no value I see in pretending to cheat-36%!!
Who are they cheating with? People they already know as 'friends' must be a high percentage of that number.
One thing's for sure, if nearly 40% of people are cheating, no way is monogamy normal.

So op is the one getting quality time in with her husband, whilst literally putting mum friend in her place. I was actually half joking but that's what I'd be tempted to do.

It gives mum friend even more opportunity to build a relationship with OP"s DD for one thing.

But I agree with you that OP and her H spending one on one time together, as opposed to him spending one on one tine with the OW would be a good thing.

So how did things go yesterday re. the Easter egg hunt. Did he go?

It’s once bitten twice shy.

The “uncool” wives have been cheated on or know someone who’s been cheated on in this exact kind of way, or maybe they became the ow or are women hit on by their married male friends.

I think old school / uni friends are different as well. They are people you grew up with.

A new friend of 4 months who you more than once a week who just happens to be so lovely to you and single and you start arranging what would appear family days out without your partner. Very very different.

Just as in my friend’s case the new younger women barely out of teen years at work but don’t worry she’s one of the lads you know a proper burping shit talking fart sharing kinda guys girl. The husband shagging her every work trip.

The married family friend who sends naughty WhatsApp’s and then deletes them but you saw them.

Hope this turns out to be nothing @Underbeliever !

Context is important here. Yes, I do believe men and women can be just friends but OP's DH doesn't seem to have gone out of his way to befriend any of the other school mums, does he? It just so happens to be the stunningly beautiful, single mum in her mid twenties that he meets up with multiple times a week, goes shopping with and has planned an Easter day out with. If they were always meeting up in a group or there were several school parents he had this level of contact with then it would be completely different. But it seems to be just this one mum that he's taken a shine to.

I mean honestly, how many working, married people with DC meet up with the same friend three times a week and do their weekly shop together?? I don't manage to see my oldest and dearest friends anywhere near that much, neither does DH. We both have friends of the opposite sex, and we both socialise with friends separately as well as together. We always have. But I still think the level of contact OP is describing is unusual.

Maybe nothing has happened, maybe nothing will happen, but it would be naive to think that OP's DH is oblivious to this womans attractiveness and that her looks have nothing at all to do with why, out of all the other parents on the playground including the parents of his DD's very best friends, he is keen to spend so much time with this one person.

How has Easter been OP?

I think for a heterosexual couple it’s one thing if you are friends with a woman from before the relationship with your now wife starts but it’s a bit of a red flag once you’re in a serious relationship/married for a guy to befriend another woman unless she’s friends with both of you. Otherwise for me it would read like what is this other random woman providing him that me as his wife isn’t? Meet up as a couple ok sure but as, “my new friend Jackie wants to go to lunch with me and btw you aren’t invited.” Yeah no…