Gift from Dad - now he wants it back?

[cashquestions]

I've namechanged for this - obvious reasons really - but just need to know what people think.

I'm late 40s, two teen boys. Mum died four years ago and shortly after my Dad, very generously and unexpectedly gave us a sum of money that he said was my mum passing money down to us. It was properly documented as a gift for IHT purposes etc and I've invested it and put it in pensions etc. It's mostly tied up for the long term so that my kids can go to uni debt free.

I am very grateful.

Now my dad has married again. I'm delighted. But he wants to buy a new home with new wife, and he's asked me to 'lend' him a third of the money he gave me to help him get this 'over the line'. He reckons this will be short term while she sells her property - wants my money for three months. But there's no guarantee of course that it will be.

I could SCRAPE together what he wants. It would mean losing ISA allowances, selling investment at a loss etc. of course, if he needed an op or something drastic I would do it. But this is so he can sell a nice home that was my family home and buy something pricier in a 'more upmarket' bit of a very nice village.

I'm sad he's asked. It makes me feel like the money he gave wasn't really a gift, and that he's always wanted control over how it was used.

Should I lend him it? What will happen to our relationship if I don't? Am I unreasonable to resent him asking?

He's asking you for a loan.
Try and forget about the money he gave you and think if you afford to loan him money.
For all he knows that money he gifted you is long gone so almost remove it from the equation.

You don't owe him a loan because of the gift. You can just say you haven't got that amount spare.

Or come up with an agreement on paper where he pays it back by a certain time. If you can afford it or some of it.

Do you trust he'd pay you back? Obviously if it's got paperwork and he doesn't would you be prepared to go to court over it?

What will happen to our relationship if I don't? This stood out to me most from your OP. I think either way it could damage your relationship with him, as you will no doubt resent him for doing this for something entirely unnecessary.

And also now he is married again, that might be all the inheritance you get.

I'd tell him I'm sorry Dad, I thought this was a gift for our family. I've put it in a pension and it is tied up - it can't be accessed unless quite a large tax bill is incurred. That's shit of him, I'm not surprised you feel upset.

Do you have a good relationship with your brother? Can you talk to him and explain that you don’t actually have the money as it’s gone on uni fees etc for the kids.

If he is wealthy, maybe he’d be able to make
up the shortfall and he gets that back when your dad dies before the rest is split between you? But it’s not his job to pay for this either. Your dad is being very unfair.

Do you know if your dad has protected his money so it goes to you and your brother? Or will the new wife get everything?

It’s just too risky to hand the money back. Even for your brother if he has it. He shouldn’t have to .

So he doesn't exactly want it back & it will be repaid, but who knows when?

If you haven't got it then you haven't.

Even if you had without a timescale of when you would get it back a no still wouldn't be unreasonable imo.

This happened to me. I was advised not to return it as if your dad dies before the 7 year period you will have to pay inheritance tax on the amount he has given you and again on the amount you have returned to him.

Even with a timescale, there would be no guarantees. They would be asked to sign it away as a gift for the house purchase. So officially on paper, it would be a gift not a loan. If dad dies, they get nothing back. If he changes his mind or the wife changes his mind, they get nothing back.

No, tell him you are sorry but all the money is tied up
It was money you inherited from your mother albeit it came from your mum.
As he is in a new relationship there is no guarantee you will get the money back.

Does your dad need to borrow back from both you & your brother?

Tough titty!.. Sorry df but the money has gone.
End of conversation..
Trying to claw back his dead dw's cash to spend it on new gf is a bit tasteless no?

To add to the person who says why do they need a new home - I completely understand why they want one.

Fresh start and all that. No problem with that at all - must be weird for new wife to move into our family home.

I love my dad, I really do. And he's a generous man. He wouldn't deprive me of money on purpose, I know he wouldn't. And I want him to be happy. I'm just worried about our relationship however this goes. I really, really wish he hadn't asked.

No please don't. Think of it as your late mum's gift to you - and not to be given to his new wife.

Im not sure how asking to borrow money from his daughter counts as shitting all over her. If the OP has asked for a loan would she be shitting all over him?

And I would damn well hope he has some loyalty to and feels some responsibility for his second wife. She's likely the one that'll be seeing him out with all that entails.

@cashquestions "He very kindly chose to give some to both of his kids (my db is quite happy to lend the money back, but he is very wealthy)."

Well if that's the case and your brother is genuinely wealthy, then why can't he lend the whole lot?

I think dad is trying to be 'fair' by asking us both equally. Which I respect.

I would say no to this as it isn't something important that he actually needs, more like a luxury purchase. Also the gift was from your Mum, not intended to spend on his new wife. If they need the money from sale of their home they can just get bridging finance.

I’m team tied up.
While I understand that your dad made the gift to you I strongly suspect that your mum would prefer that the money goes towards her grandchildren’s education rather than a perfect house for your new step-mum.
There are bridging loans if they are needed.

I get it. But I wouldn't be happy about it. What if something happened to your dad (god forbid) before he paid the "loan" back. Especially as it will be tied up in a house jointly owned by him and his new wife. Excuse my cynicism but I'm old and I've seen too much go wrong over the years.

My Mum gave my sister 30k in cash to look after for her while she was in hospital. Apparently once the money has been given to someone to hold them it's theirs . So the money your Dad gave you is yours .
Vice versa too the money you give your Dad is his .
Unless you ring fence it @cashquestions.

He gave it to you. Its yours. If he regrets it now thats tough. He will have to wait until his new wife has sold her house. He wont give you the money back in a few months time if he thought he gave you too much in the first place.

I also vote for telling him it's all tied up (and it sounds like that is pretty much the truth).

I think it's not fair on him to ask - a gift is a gift. You can't then ask for it back. As you say, if it was for an operation etc. I'd see it differently, but this seems unfair.

God forbid something happened to him - it could all end up belonging to his wife. Even if she's nice, money matters get very messy, very quickly. You may never see it back

It was a gift from your mum via your dad. Now he wants your mums gift back to give his new women. Don’t give it back op.

Agree. "Sorry dad I put it in accounts for the kids and can't access it." He doesn't need to know it's "can't morally" take it from them rather than "can't legally."