Daughter starting nursery job, expected unpaid early starts and late finishes

[Nurserynewby12]

My daughter is looking forward to beginning a new job this week in childcare. She interviewed really well and will be studying for a qualification too. This all seems great. I work in accounts so do not know much about nursery care work but she has told me she has to start fifteen minutes early every day and will have to stay later than her finish time if parents are late or cleaning needs to be done. Both of these early and late instances will apparantly be unpaid. I do not know about nursery things much but did think this is unpaid work and not legal? Is there different rules for nurseries? I think if this happens all time she is being exploited whether she gets a qualification or not? She does not know as she is new to this area of work. I want to protect her from being exploited but need views from childcare/employment lawyers? Anyone around from employment law or a nursery manager to advise?

I think with most public facing roles you need to be prepared to finish a bit later, due to trying to clear the building/area.

I work with the public and there's always 15 minutes give or take expected.

Any more than 15 minutes and we can submit a time sheet to claim for half an hour.

As for starting earlier, as long as they're on the premises with their coats off, bags stored away and ready to actually work at their starting time, I don't think they should be expected any earlier.

Is she salaried or paid hourly?

Paid hourly minimum wage

Will the extra hours take her below minimum wage?

Cross posted.

Then the extra unpaid work will take her below minimum wage. That's illegal

Not sure as she has not started yet but at bare minimum she is working for 30 mins a day for free x 5 days

If it’s taking her below the minimum wage then it’s illegal. She should be paid for that time.

My teaching assistant friends are in the same position, it’s really unfair.

She said everyone who works there does it. She thinks if its illegal then it could not be ok for everyone to follow. I am worried this will be the start of her working for free in an already low paid job.

That's a lot of working for free spread over a year x the amount of employees doing the same.

If she is expected to work in the 15 minutes before and after then it will count as working time. If she is on minimum wage, the unpaid time will take her below minimum wage which is illegal and actionable by HMRC if reported. Complaints to HMRC can be anonymous so if this affects more than just your daughter, they won't necessarily know who reported it.

I think she needs to check how often the parents are late or the cleaning needs to be done.

If it's every day or even just on particular regular days, it doesn't sound fair.

But she probably needs to check too whether staff can leave early if all the kids have been picked up before her official finishing time.

She is under 21 so still very young in some ways. I think this rule is a way to exploit her and others who agree to it.

Yes it’s illegal. All employees should be paid for hours worked. Unfortunately it’s commonly accepted especially in minimum hour roles.
Any employees speak up they can risk losing their jobs.

It's shit but it's common practice.
She probably can't tackle this on an individual level - she won't win, she'll just be labeled as a troublemaker (at best) or lose her job.
These type of battles used to be fought at union level, but unfortunately I'm doubtful of how strong nursery worker unions are.

It depends on exactly what they said eg did they recommend arriving 15 minutes earlier than the start time to put away her coat and bag, have a cup of tea and use the toilet then that’s a suggestion, you should be able to actually work at your start time not be just walking through the door (I typically arrive 10-15 minutes before i officially start) if they want them to clock in 15 minutes before start time to actually do work, that’s not allowed if it takes them below minimum wage. Similarly they should be paid at the end of the day until their tasks are complete but then she’ll need to collect her coat and bag etc.

You need to drum it into her to join a union.

I'm always surprised at how many MNetters have never done this.

They're not the be all and end all but for a few quid a month, they can come in handy.

A friend of ours used to work as a TA and was expected to do an after school club once a week for an hour for free.

Grass to HMRC. From April there is a new government agency dealing with it.

I had this in a part-time shop job when I was at sixth form. 5:30 finish but always there til 5:50 unpaid. I kicked up a fuss and in the end I was rota’d to finish at 5:15 instead. Didn’t do any time for free.

These replies are confirming my suspicions. I think I will report to HMRC so they can investigate if this is fair or not. My daughter lacks employment savvy and confidence so I think they will take advantage of her with this "rule". Any nursery managers around to advise if this is normal for nurseries? I am clueless about nurseries apart from sending my daughter to one when she was a toddler. I hope it is not normal as it is unfair.

Have a Google but I think UNISON is best for nursery staff.

A nursery very near to me has just been investigated for paying staff below minimum wage by doing this exact same thing. Exploiting young women by expecting them to work for free is akin to modern slavery IMO.

It’s probably very normal but that doesn’t make it legal or right!

I would hope that your friend declined such a generous demand and spoke to their Union.

Is it definitely free work? She isn't given 2 unpaid 15 mins breaks as well as a lunch break to give the time back?

Is it definitely free work? She isn't given 2 unpaid 15 mins breaks as well as a lunch break to give the time back?