Daughter starting nursery job, expected unpaid early starts and late finishes

[Nurserynewby12]

My daughter is looking forward to beginning a new job this week in childcare. She interviewed really well and will be studying for a qualification too. This all seems great. I work in accounts so do not know much about nursery care work but she has told me she has to start fifteen minutes early every day and will have to stay later than her finish time if parents are late or cleaning needs to be done. Both of these early and late instances will apparantly be unpaid. I do not know about nursery things much but did think this is unpaid work and not legal? Is there different rules for nurseries? I think if this happens all time she is being exploited whether she gets a qualification or not? She does not know as she is new to this area of work. I want to protect her from being exploited but need views from childcare/employment lawyers? Anyone around from employment law or a nursery manager to advise?

It’s rubbish but we had to do it.
We could only claim for a ‘late pick up’ if it was over 30 minutes, and even then it was usually ‘forgotten’.

If she’s not prepared to do that then she can choose to decline the job and find one with more suitable times.

i don’t work in nursery care but have never worked anywhere that didn’t expect a certain amount of unpaid extra.

Thank you to all who posted replies.
I am going to try to persuade her to turn down job as soon as possible and report them to HMRC. In my profession it would be laughable to be expected to do so much for free. I had no idea that certain professions are treated so poorly.

And any men going into the profession will be presumed to be a paedophile by people on here.

we have a local one. Nannys /staff avoid it if they can - yet they always seem to have full books

not sure if cheaper than other ones near me

Let her start and see how it goes. But bear in mind there are hardly any jobs where people get to walk in at their start time and leave on the dot at the end of their shift. She might be better off getting the bus rather than relying on you for lifts if you are intent on monitoring this so closely.

Met lots of apprentices in childcare(nursery settings) also my DD2 worked in a nursery for a year( was already a newly qualified primary teacher) cannot think of one person who was happy, they all loved the kids but the disorganisation, being counted in numbers when they should not have been and unreasonable managers made their lives awful. The constant turnover of staff is another problem and of course the dire hours and low pay.
All my kids went to private nurseries and I am grateful for the service but as a parent at the time I didn't realise the toll on the staff.

I agree with a lot of the comments but I think over emphasising this is spoiling the new job experience for your daughter. Let her enjoy it first then start worrying about exploitation. At the nursery my granddaughter attends the parents get fined ten pounds if they are late. Hooefulky they oay their staff fir staying late.

It is too rural for her to get to so I have to provide transport.

Does she have this request in writing, either a text or email? If text, screenshot is a must in case they cancel it.
If not, she could send an email to confirm finishing times as she needs to organise transport. Once you have it in writing, your case will be stronger.
Of course it is illegal and she will likely be dismissed if she argues against it.
Says at lot about the company she will be working for.

Obviously you can't rock up at 7.30am if kids are arriving at 7.30am. However, if they want you there at 7.15am to set up the room, prepare the breakfast trolley, then they should bloody well pay you. If you're a salaried engineer or doctor, you expect to do some unpaid overtime but not if you are paid by the hour and it's minimum wage.

The parents definitely get charged for late pick ups

It probably is illegal but is very common. You really need to arrive at least 10 minutes early to be ready to start on time although it should be paid. I have done similar roles.

It’s shit, but yes.
She will also be expected to stay/return for meetings that start at 6.30/7 when her shift finishes at 4.
Also expected to stay for parent evenings, open days at the weekend, training in evenings and weekends…….

It can be a very rewarding job but not financially.

So at all your jobs you’ve worked for less than minimum wage? More fool you then.

All this and more.
Rooms freezing on winter mornings and boiling hot in summer.
Phones failing, lights going out, water supplies not working.
Numbers of children regularly over the legal limit.
Bullying managers.
Accountant ‘forgetting’ to pay the staff on pay day. ‘Well you’ll have to wait until Monday now’
Wages regularly short, sometimes by hundreds. Constantly having to chase it up.
Some parents lovely but some very rude.
Toys all second hand/pieces missing.
Books all from jumble sales.

Very expensive private nursery!

When she starts see how regular it is and what the arrangement is - paid overtime, time off in lieu, whatever.

If she’s regularly working more than she is paid for and isn’t having any time off in lieu then as pp said report them to HMRC. Also worth a phone call to ACAS, they can’t sack someone for demanding to be paid minimum wage.

100% illegal and there are some big name retailers who have been fined doing doing exactly the same to young minimum wage employees, exploiting the fact they don't know any better or are too desperate for a job to kick up a fuss. I think it was Sports Direct who made employees stay 15 mins after the official end of their shift to undergo "security checks." The staff weren't on the shop floor so didn't realise that it was unpaid "work."

Edit: oops, I see someone else had already made this point about sports direct. Illegal as fuck.

I worked as a TA in my last job - management tried to tell us that after our unpaid 15 minute breaks (2 in the morning split by lessons) we needed to be outside the classroom with the kids before the lesson started.

That would have cut short our breaks by a lot, given it was a big site and could take a few minutes to walk to and from our break room to the classroom.

We gave management the option of paying our breaks or we wouldn't leave the break room until the lesson bell went and paid time recommenced.

They declined paid breaks.

So we declined leaving until the bell sounded.

It may be accepted practice in OP'S nursery to arrive 15 minutes early and leave 15 minutes late, but I don't think it's legal.

If it's a requirement of the job to ensure smooth running of the nursery then it should be paid. If it's not paid, then it's not part of the job and I wouldn't do it.

The same thing happens at the pre-school I work at. We aren’t expected to start early, but you do need to get there with enough time to clock in and out your stuff in your locker etc. Around 5 mins is sufficient enough for that. But if parents are late or were over ratio we are expected to stay until we can legally leave. Anything under 15mins isn’t accounted for, anything over 15 mins is put on as ‘toil’ so you build it up over the year.

Problem is there’s never an opportunity to use the toil. Every time I ask it’s a no, also toil never gets out in the book unless you stand there and insist.

It’s a very toxic workplace but as of yet I’ve not found anywhere else with the days and shifts I currently have. Which do work for my children and family life being a single mum.

Start time is fairly normal. Im nhs and expected to be ready to go at my start time. That requires me to me about 15 mins early to get everything into my locker, make sure im ready for the start, then to start work.

However if they have to stay late that should be given as time owed if not paid

It’s similar for teachers and teaching assistants. I’m a TA and always arrive 15 minutes early to get set up and generally have to stay after school to stay with those children whose parents haven’t turned up on time, complete any safeguarding or accident forms and prep for interventions, plus I have to do a residential week every year.
The residential is the real killer for me, it’s utterly exhausting, we never get thanks from the parents- only complaints over trivial things like bedrooms, plus it’s not only unpaid after 3:15 (despite it being an exhausting 5 days of being up pretty much every single night) it actually costs me and DH money as my own kids have to go to before and after school clubs and my husband has to finish work early to cover after school clubs.

I ran a nursery for over 30 years. Nursery staff were paid from 15 minutes before opening to allow setting up. If any parents were late picking up then two staff members had to remain behind. Manager and deputy manager were the two remaining behind as they were salaried and it was written into contracts. Parents were charged a late fee… but this was only really implemented for repeat offenders as most often there was a good reason why parents were late.

It's illegal and unfortunately common, nurseries can be very exploitative of staff and rely on lots of young, underpaid workers.
A nursery chain was recently fined quite a lot for doing this.