Daughter starting nursery job, expected unpaid early starts and late finishes

[Nurserynewby12]

My daughter is looking forward to beginning a new job this week in childcare. She interviewed really well and will be studying for a qualification too. This all seems great. I work in accounts so do not know much about nursery care work but she has told me she has to start fifteen minutes early every day and will have to stay later than her finish time if parents are late or cleaning needs to be done. Both of these early and late instances will apparantly be unpaid. I do not know about nursery things much but did think this is unpaid work and not legal? Is there different rules for nurseries? I think if this happens all time she is being exploited whether she gets a qualification or not? She does not know as she is new to this area of work. I want to protect her from being exploited but need views from childcare/employment lawyers? Anyone around from employment law or a nursery manager to advise?

I will be transporting her most days so I will be parked outside to check leaving times. HMRC can still be told and if they have nothing to hide the expectation will carry on. I do not have anything against childcare but I will not let her be exploited.

Sounds normal

It's the same in lots of jobs. You can't just open the door at 9am in Tesco etc. there's things need doing first, but there should be someon3 paid to start at say 8.45 and finish at 15 pas5 the hour not expect others in early and leave late.

What sounds normal? Being expected to work for free?

I find your reaction so bizarre. It's normal to turn up to work 15 min early and leave later if you're public facing.

For half an hour as you build your experience? Yes, that's how life works.

At our nursery we are charged if we’re late for pick up, unless it’s really unavoidable (there was a car accident near nursery recently which meant almost every driving parent was slightly late, they didn’t charge). I’d expect the staff who have to stay on to be paid out of the late charges! As it happens they almost always all leave on the dot of 5pm, we’re often still around as DS likes to look at the cows in the field across the road so we see them lock up and leave. The time before shift I’d question, but the after hours I’d maybe wait and see how often it actually happens.

That’s fine though isn’t it so long as you’re paid?

If not then you’re literally being exploited by illegal working practices and need to develop a backbone. In this instance the poster is involving themself because their child is young and inexperienced.

I do not want my daughter working for at least half an hour every day for free. Why is that bizarre? If she is working she should be paid for that work.

@Nurserynewby12 have you seen a copy of the contract? If she's getting a qualification, might it be an apprenticeship?

I work in early years, my previous nursery wanted us in 10 minutes before start, we refused unless we were paid for it, we all stuck together on that. If we had to stay late because a child was late to be collected we were owed that time.

my nursery now as long as you are on the floor for your start time then it’s fine, if we need to stay later then it’s owed to us.

Wait and see what happens...maybe parents are never late or maybe the staff get to go home early another day instead. You said apparently unpaid so it's not clear at the moment. It is illegal if its true but you might not have the full story yet.

I agree it is wrong and your daughter shouldn’t need to work for those times unpaid. However, bear in mind if she hasn’t even started yet and will have a probationary period she could end up jobless if they know it is you/her behind reporting them to HMRC. It could be worth waiting a little while.

I work in childcare and the general expectation is that we should be 'on the floor' ready to go at our shift start time, not walking in the door and then spending several minutes settling in before being ready to start. If we are on a later shift e.g. closing or pre-closing, we need to ensure that we are at ratio i.e. 1 teacher to 8 kids max. before we can leave. This usually works out although rarely I may have to stay a few minutes after I am supposed to leave. If staff are having to regularly stay past their leaving time, the supervisor needs to look at amending shift times to ensure adequate cover without lots of overtime having to happen.

@2chocolateoranges You all made a stand and the change was made. My concern is that there is an expectation at the nursery and once she starts, she will be trapped in it.

In one of my retail jobs in the two thousands ppl were going in to do stocktakes on a Sunday when the shop was closed for NO WAGE I questioned it and i got You arent frightened of hard work are you. It was an expectation. I was let go after three weeks as i was apparently not a team player

It's normal in many nurseries. And often the only break you get is your minimal lunch break. And some nurseries expect you to do training e.g paediatric first aid in your own time (unpaid). And attend staff meetings in the evenings unpaid. And if you're off sick, you just get statutory sick pay.

Yes. It’s illegal. Sports Direcr was taken to court for this. The staff had to do a compulsory security check which took 15 minutes every day and Sports Direct was made to pay for thus because it took their staff below minimum wage.

@JenniferBooth did you have any regrets? Or did you dodge a nasty bullet by having some self-worth?

Normal in childcare. Not good though.

I'll just leave this link to Busy Bees Nurseries.

@Mysterian that is a horrible read!

When I worked in hospitality and ret it was pretty standard

No no regrets Quite aside from not being paid the shop wasnt actually open on Sundays No one was officially suposed to be there so that makes things like employers liability insurance null and void

There aren't really any unions operating in private nurseries. Apart from pay I've had a nursery which often got down below 15 degrees, non functioning fire escapes, and having staff meetings that mean there's no 11 hour break between shifts.
It's very much nurseries can do what they want and staff who complain get removed/bullied out.

Nursery work is not a job to go into if you want to work under good management (with some exceptions). And plenty of parents treat you like shit. You should read some of the threads on MN.