Please help family and rent

[limeandwater]

Lurker of ten years plus, and looking for some anonymous and honest feedback.

Approx 5 years ago sister split from husband. On the surface they lived a very nice life, but long story short her ex had mortgaged everything against his business and they lost the lot and were left with nothing.

My husband and I are fortunate enough to have a number of properties. We let her and her two kids stay in one of our houses and used words to the affect "it's yours rent free for as long as you need it."

She met a man approx two years ago who we like and is good to her and the kids and 3 months ago she asked if he could move in. We said yes - but presumed rent would follow.

To give you some non specific info the man in question earns approx 60k per year and rents out the flat he was living in for £1600pcm which I imagine would more than cover his mortgage. They live a nice life if that matters. Holidays, meals out, etc.

We are in South East and the 3 bed house she lives in would rent at approx £2800 per month. My husband thinks its cheeky that no offer of rent has been made. He doesn't want or expect market value - and in fact would probably only want about half.

I agree with him, it's a bit cheeky, but then think back to our wording 5 years ago.

My husband is a lovely man and never gets angry, but last Sunday we went out for Sunday lunch and we split the bill. I could tell tell he was annoyed and asked him what was wrong - and he stated "he lives rent free in our property, he could have got lunch."

Who is right and what do we do?

I would use the new rules coming in next month as an excuse to bring up the topic now. Set the slate clean and get an agreement going forward. I am a bit baffled as to why this wasn't a conversation three months ago, but we are where we are.

It's outrageous that your sister has a household income of £100k and thinks she should be allowed live in someone else's house for free. You may be rich but she is also well off.

Issues section 21s to her?

She sounds like a CF. Start charing them FULL rent.

they are taking the piss, but the problem has been caused by a lack of communication. You said it’s free for as long as you need it, and you have said nothing else since. It’s time to talk.

Hopefully you're meeting now and will have an update for us all soon!

Voted YABU because why would you "presume" instead of asking? Agree they should be paying rent though!

Your sister is a cheeky fucker. I can’t even imagine not offering something, even when she moved in at the start.

Thank you for all your replies, but nothing to worry about.

She said she didn't approach me as she was embarrassed to bring the subject up. I am not so wet behind the ears that I don't suspect they were actually enjoying living rent free.

Is starting to pay £1750 pcm from April 1st.

Did funnily mention buying the house at some point, but partner would need to sell his property first so that is some way down the line.

You were very silly

Now you'll have to talk

Cross post

Good result.

Fraid so. You told DSis it was rent free so of course she continues to assume that unless you say differently. But it's not too late to ask for some rent and obviously it caused so offence. You will enjoy the extra income! But remember they will have tenants rights and you will have to go through all the processes to be a private landlord - gas and electric inspections etc.

Decent result - i dont judge your sister so much as her man tbh but its done now

Husband is happy, it was never about the money.

I think everybody is happy with this result.

They get a reduced rent and hubby no longer feels like he is being taken advantage of.

My sister is my best friend, this isn't going to get legal in a million years.

She knows you won't get legal.

As for best friend, examine that assumption more carefully. Your sister has been living off you and your husband for the last 5 years. I can see putting her up temporarily while she got back on her feet after her marriage breakdown. But she's been taking advantage the tune of over £100k and moved in a cocklodger bf and they won't even buy you a damn lunch. That's not a friend, much less a best friend. Embarrassed to bring up paying her way, my ass. Plus, her bf might not be a good one, given he's moved into her free house, didn't offer rent or even to cover your lunch.

I'm glad you brought it up to her and she's agreed to pay some rent.

she should have been embarrassed to NOT bring it up, come on🙄 I’d love to live rent/ mortgage free too!

£2800 a month, 5 years = £168k. That’s how much she has benefitted from you so far.

If you sell, make sure it’s at market rate, she already benefitted by 168k from you.

I suspect they will never be able to buy it.

Even if he is mortgage free (and I don't know that he is) the property is worth circa 3.5 times more than his aprtment.

Taking on an approx (and this is based on him being mortgage free) 700k mortgage in your mid 40's with a 100k household income doesn't seem achievable to me.

Your sister did nothing wrong. She was told as long as she needs it. The disparity in wealth remains but it's never purely money: it's family obligation and even in that there are always emotions lurking on either side, such as envy, resentment, feelings of unfairness, being taken advantage of etc. which can upset the delicate balance of relationships.

If it were purely the money, you wouldn't charge rent as you don't need it and, arguably, she does. She still hasn't recovered sufficiently from being left with nothing to being able to buy a house, for example. So why charge rent? Ah, emotions - lunch and not offering rent on their side, which means not registering appreciation and gratitude or willingness to reciprocate with even small tokens of recognition of your consideration and gifts. And what of the delicate balance of her relationship with the new man who's only moved in three months ago? Potential there for more emotional undermining and destabilising of relationship and potential.

Agree re family obligation, and if it doesn't work out with partner then we would no longer expect any rent.

Did she buy the coffees?!

No comment!

I've voted yabu, not because I don't think they should be paying rent but because I think you should have explicitly stated that you expected rent when your dsis asked if he could move in.

You've been very generous to your sister, and yes, it's taking the piss if they can't even buy you lunch, but perhaps they think you're rolling in it and genuinely don't care.

Either way, I think the onus is on you to be transparent about your expectations. Decide how much rent you want and let them know. They can then decide if they want to keep living there on that basis.

I can never understand why people feel obliged to allow family to live rent free in a property they currently own. At worst the family member (if they have no income) could claim some benefits to alleviate the situation. The point where your sisters BF was to move in would have been a good one to reset the boundaries and to set up the arrangement as an official tenency with the appropriate documentation. I would certainly not feel guilty about this. Who is currently paying for the council tax, insurance and so on?

😅😆😉

Depends on income and earnings potential - say if she worked full time as well. You can get long mortgages these days. Standard used to be 25 years and paid off by the age of 70 or 75 but some now have no upper age limit or it's 80, 85 and you can even take out a mortgage as a pensioner, all depending on affordability. Mid forties may be no barrier.

Do you need to ask. Couple of cheeky people. Get them paying some rent, now that ha s moved in and earning .
Is this for real. Why haven't you said anything?