Anti valuers are dumb and pathetic

[Beautifulsiro56]

Anti-vaxxers shouldn’t even consider having children until they develop a basic sense of responsibility.

I’m beyond frustrated hearing about measles outbreaks again and again. I fully understand that some parents genuinely cannot vaccinate their children using live vaccines due to legitimate medical conditions that weaken the immune system, but outside of those rare cases, there is no excuse apart from being totally and utterly DUMB and people that are do dumb and irresponsible should not be reproducing..

Lol. Why on earth would I make something like that up? I dont disagree that there are lots of people still suffering with long covid. I bet many, if not all of them had the jab

While I am pro vaxx (even paying privately for some jabs not available on the NHS) I struggle with some of the animosity towards anti vaxxers. I was treated very badly during my first labour which lead to some life threatening complications and mental health issues. As a result I did go through a stage of being very mistrusting of the medical profession and if I didn't have sibling who is a doctor I probably would have been taken in by the anti vax stuff. Some of the birth trauma groups I was in had lots of anti vaxx members.

We need to acknowledge the faults in the medical system in order to regain people's trust. Let's face it, it's mainly mothers making the vax decision and ultimately taking them to the doctors (or not). If they have had a bad experience of doctors a few short weeks before while giving birth, is it any wonder they don't want to offer up their precious baby for jabs? The general misogyny within the medical profession is also a real problem.

We also have to address racism within the medical system. Vaccine refusal is highest among black people. Is it any wonder that there is mistrust when black women are far more likely to die in labour than white woman? Do you really expect people to trust doctors when as recently as the 1970s you had things like the Tuskagee Syphilis experiment going on?

Instead of name calling we need sensible conversations and the concerns of people worried about vaccines need to be adressed.

I might have agreed with you a decade ago, but a casual glance at FB groups - that are regional news sources - quickly dispels this thought.

There is an impenetrable wall of willful ignorance out there, where anyone offering clear, helpful language with the correct educational links and scientific data etc. is met with mockery at best, and insults aplenty.

It is depressing to see and read. The abuse you speak of is almost always coming from those who have no understanding of what immunisation has achieved. Trying to convince people of the efficacy of childhood vaccines with gentle language and links to help them read and understand more is hopeless with so many. I know, because I have tried, and I have seen others try, repeatedly.

I now believe we should be more robust in our handling of those who refuse to vaccinate. No vaccines, no school place. The same with any medical attention. We cannot keep pandering to ignorance. Vaccination is a social contract and we do it for ourselves, as well as the greater good.

When I took my babies for their shots, I always had in mind I was protecting them firstly, then everyone else who CANNOT receive them. I didn't do it for Emma from Wigan to opt out and claim she had 'done her research', while piggybacking off the herd immunity we afford them.

@Beautifulsiro56 Anti-vaxxers shouldn’t even consider having children until they develop a basic sense of responsibility.
Goady in the extreme. There are many ways to be an irresponsible parent and many different definitions of 'irresponsible'.
Do you want people sterilised if they don't agree with you about every single point?

The vaccine reduces the chances of getting long covid.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(23)00414-9/fulltext

So more evidence of the importance of vaccination

No. This is incorrect. The measles outbreak is because of people refusing the MMR vaccine (measles, mumps and rubella) which has been routinely given to children since the 1960s and 1970s. The MenB vaccine protects against meningitis, not measles, and that's the one that has only been routinely offered since 2015.

Conspiracy, where? Have you ever undertook any education into research methods? It is a highly common phenomenon for research to have data cherry-picked to support the hypothesis. Such research being funded by those aiming to make billions from selling a product is no coincidence.

I agree, to an extent. I dont agree with attacking people for their personal choices regarding their body. I dont agree with saying people against vaccinations shouldn't be allowed to have children. I think people should carefully consider the research and side effects of each individual vaccination before agreeing to them. I have much more respect for somebody that chooses to research what is going into their bodies, than someone who blindly does it because somebody else told them to (regardless of who that person is) whom then goes onto MN to berate and insult others for their own choices.

Even if they are lying it is fact that there have been very rare deaths and rare side effects.

Was your reply actually meant for me? I didn’t rant or say anything abusive. I certainly did not comment on who should and shouldn’t have children.

But onto your point about big pharma and bias due to funding. While you are correct to say that big pharmaceutical companies fund research and funding definitely does introduce bias, your comment shows a fundamental misunderstanding of how science works - there are strong safeguarding controls such as peer reviews, disclosure of funding, independent analysis of the results, meta analyses etc.

You are also incorrect to assume that all or even the majority of vaccine research is funded by companies. It is also funded by WHO, governments around the world, public bodies such as the UK health security agency. What’s more, different health bodies across the world come to the same conclusions. And it’s not even the case that some countries think one thing and others think something else, this is something that scientists and doctors worldwide agree oN. Vaccines have been available for decades And the real world evidence shows that vaccines work. Measles was eradicated in the UK when the vaccine uptake was enough for herd immunity.

The evidence for vaccines working is overwhelming - to be frank I have no idea why anyone would talk about “cherry picking” evidence.

And to be honest, your uninformed view is actually damaging. If anyone who reads this thinks you are right, it might dissuade from vaccinating their children, even though you said you weren’t against vaccines but you have made it sound like they are way more risky than they are.

The comments section on Facebook news reports about the meningitis outbreak are like conspiracy nut bingo today.

Convid
Crisis actors
🐑
Exercise Pegasus
It's the boats
You sound vaccinated
Clot shots

They think they're so clever and have uncovered things nobody else knows about/understands. It's so pathetic.

Diosmonet do you see the irony of your post underneath the title of this post?
Mumsnet has never been a place where people can ask questions on this topic without abuse and I mean abuse not robust disagreement.

I was referring to somebody else's comment that they "want white lab coats and goggles" if theyre going to take advice from someone. Cringe.

Pharmacy and medicine is a billion dollar industry. Banks are established. People move to other fields to capitalise on other people's needs. Idk why you would assume only one field out of so many would make a lot of money. The cosmetics industry is worth billions. Lots of industries are worth millions and billions. I really dont understand your point, just because one company sold one vaccination to break even.

Do the vaccine-refusing members believe that child suffering and death is pleasing to God?

I have a PhD in a stem subject so have a decent understanding of research methods. You?

People should do their own research? Not everyone is educated enough, or capable enough, of understanding. Obviously

That is an absolutely unproveable theory.

Doing their "research" usually means reading various websites. Then they think they are experts, trumping years of knowledge and experience gained in the scientific field. They are really thick but think they aren't. Poor children deserve better than muppets gor parents.

This, with bells on!!! A lot of people simply cannot grasp quite how awful these illnesses are, precisely because of the vaccinations they now choose to reject.

I have a living relative who is disabled as a result of contracting polio as a child. Granted, he is ancient, but speak to any baby boomer and they can tell you about measles - it ain't fun!

What is?

It's like a cult and they also use the same terms.

Sheeple people have vaccines. Awake people don't because they have done their research and won't be fooled.

They sound incredibly stupid but hang out with other incredibly stupid people so get validated that their decision is the best.

Yep, and all convinced it's another test that the mysterious "they" are running to see how compliant we are and who will "fall for it again".

Absolute idiots the lot of them.

I may be wrong, but I think the smallpox vaccine was mandatory until about 1970. I was born in 1971 and didn’t need it because it was well on the way to eradication by then.

Happy to be corrected 🙂

What I’d recommend for anti-vaxxers is a walk around an old churchyard or two, with plenty of 19thC graves, to see where 2, 3, or even 4 children from the same family died within a very few weeks - or even a few days - of each other, because of some epidemic that is now preventable, that was raging at the time.

But perhaps they’d still find a reason to ignore such evidence.

I always wonder if they were seriously sick and in hospital would they be refusing all medication before they got to read the ingredients…

Why does it bother you? If you/your child are vaccinated you’re protected. Those that are ‘anti-vax’ as you put it are mostly vaccine injured people or have a child/family member who has been damaged by vaccines. I think you need to pull your head out your arse and actually take some time to listen to these people.

I suppose because most of my friends and (extended) family work as hcps or in pharmaceutical industry and we all have to work to strict guidelines and procedures (plus mhra and FDA breathing down our necks)
Everybody within my circle have had themselves and children vaccinated (including COVID if offered) - we all know about the diseases we are protecting about but yes I worried before taking my DC for vaccination but then my sensible brain took over