to be getting irate at friends with adult DC who do not work?

[goldenteapot]

My DC are in their mid-late 20s and all in work - but are the exception among family and friends. They have around 12 cousins - none of whom have ever worked in so much as a local pub or shop, and all live in their parents' naice houses gaming all day. Lots have one or two degrees, so are not stupid by any means! I think statistically about 50% of young adults of this age that are not working - but among my family and friends it's very much higher.

It's a similar story with friends: every adult child is depressed or anxious and/or autistic so cannot work. The assumption seems to be that the jobs market is too difficult and their children can't cope. Conversation when we meet is all about how frustrated everyone is because they can't get their DC to work or do anything around the house.

I just want to shake them all! They are providing no tough love or reasons that these children will ever work and live independently.

AIBU to be losing my patience with everyone, or am I a bit of a bitch and working life really is too tough these days for young people?

Maybe young people are starting to ask 'Why?'

Why should they get a job?
Why should they leave home?
Why should they stand on their own feet?

Just because that's the status quo, it doesn't mean that it's good or desirable.

Parents decide to have kids to fulfil their own needs and end up lumbering the children with a lifetime of insecurity and drudgery.

If the kids reject this paradigm, they're labelled as entitled, lazy, spoilt, feckless, etc.

I don't know what the answer is, but perhaps we should be asking if it's even fair to have children?

You are fortunate that you havnt watched your children wasting their lives away. I doubt any of those parents get any joy from seeing how their adult DC are living their lives.

I have noticed this and am a bit baffled by the sheer level of entitlement of some of them. They all seem to feel they are 'above' things like supermarket jobs, cleaning jobs, warehouse roles etc, whereas when I was that age I would have (and did!) taken just about any job as a stop gap while looking for something better.

Nowadays it seems to be accepted to just sit at home gaming while hoping for the 'perfect' rather well salaried job will fall into their lap when often if they had any work experience at all, even in a completely unrelated field, they'd stand a much better chance of getting hired for one of the 'better' jobs.

I regularly recruit for apprentice /'first proper full time job' type roles where the applicants are usually 20-23 years old. I can tell you straight away I discard the applicants who have never had any sort of part time job, the best applicants are the ones who got a job at 17 or 18 in the local corner shop /chippy/ cleaning at school or whatever.

The first post on this thread is about people in their mid twenties sitting around playing games all day and claiming benefits.

Someone in full time education is not doing that.

Or you could actually show an interest in the world around you.

Things are going to get much tougher as global warming gets worse. We've unleashed soft, spoilt children into what is rapidly becoming a very difficult world.

This is a bit of a tricky one really. On one hand, some adults really do not have the capability to work, and you saying "everyone has autism/anxiety/depression these days" is extremely judgemental, hurtful, and very much a mindless boomer thing to say tbh.

A lot of people with SEN sit in the middle where they may seem fine and dandy and be able to function on the surface, but really do struggle in the workplace for a plethora of reasons.

On the other hand, it is no secret that there are many people, young and old, that will find any excuse they can to not work just so that they can doss about all day living off of free money. It is incredibly frustrating that such people exist, but there's not much you can do about it. If your friends DC do fall into this category, yet you know theyre doing everything they can to get them off their arse doing something and theyre refusing, I wouldnt get irate with them over it.

If I were there parents I would set rules for remaining in my house rent free as a perfectly capable adult refusing to work. For one, any household tasks must be completed every day. They should be actively looking for work, even if just a little part time job. For people where money isnt a problem, it goes beyond the issue of finances and more about raising self-sustainable adults who will be able to care for themselves when you are long gone.

Allowing them to game in the house all day is enabling them to stay stuck in this cycle of self-imposed helplessness, so I can understand the frustration, but respectfully they are not your children so it has little to do with you.

Maybe young people are starting to ask 'Why?'

Why should they get a job?
Why should they leave home?
Why should they stand on their own feet?

Because in the real world not all parents are affluent like mumsnetters. And the welfare system can't cope with the ever increasing numbers.

Some of your comments are fair, but I just want to take issue with your quote: "you saying "everyone has autism/anxiety/depression these days" is extremely judgemental,"

I said: "It's a similar story with friends: every adult child is depressed or anxious and/or autistic so cannot work." That is the situation - and I've no doubt that some of these adults are unwell enough not to work, but I also think that long-term unemployment (particularly if you have been told you 'can't work' because of your diagnosis) feeds into a cycle of depression and anxiety and the loss of any social skills they might have.

If you end up gaming all night and sleeping all day, you will be depressed pretty quickly.

Likewise when my relatives complain about being 'kept up night with Kevin gaming' I think they are idiots for allowing it.

Yes - that was my point

This.

It's not easy to find a job for a young person - "even" a retail or hospitality job. Employers know they have the upper hand and they make it as hard as possible (and then still don't recruit the best people - see this thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5502114-to-wonder-how-incompetentineffective-people-have-jobs-whilst-others-dont?page=3&reply=151068699

Your children have been lucky. Just be glad about that.

However, I do think that a lot of kids would find it easier to find jobs if gaming consoles had never been invented. But if the jobs aren't there, they aren't there.

The government better do something about the economy then.

Doesn't help when old men start throwing missiles around and trying to destroy the world economy (and the environment) though.

I definitely see a trend. Those with younger teens don’t want them to suffer any minor inconveniences and get involved when parents wouldn’t have in the past.
At sixth form there was a definite split between parents who wanted kids to work (and often facilitated it with lifts etc) and those who said oh just focus on studies.
I was in first group. She had a pt job at McDonalds and it did her world of good. She volunteered and babysat too. Other kids were working as lifeguards, junior football ref, waitressing.
She still had plenty of free time and got top grades.
Every dc I know who got a competitive degree apprenticeship at 18 had worked pt and got top grades. The employers wanted to see they could juggle work and study.
Unsurprisingly once at uni those with no work history struggle to get a job as they are up against kids with 2 years experience.
Some parents have no expectations of yp working at uni. I understand some courses are full on but there’s long holidays.
I recruit recent graduates in a competitive field and do look at work history as part of application. We deal with members of the public as part of role so anything customer facing is helpful. I see a lot of CVs with a degree and masters and absolutely zero paid work. A 22/23 yr old who has never worked is potentially a huge risk to hire. We find they don’t make interview stage as other candidates score higher as they have more experience and better examples.

I think you need to realise that the world has changed. There simply aren't that many roles like that now.

However, that doesn't stop young people from volunteering and joining societies at university. I had Saturday jobs but a lot of my really useful work experience came from working on my university newspaper for the love of it. I learnt lots of new skills and they definitely helped me get my first graduate job.

But I didn't have to combat automated application systems.

Ah I apologise, I misunderstood your comment. I thought you were implying every young adult has autism etc these days, not just your friends DC. Sorry about that. Hear it all the time and it irks me.

I agree with the rest of your comment completely. My sister is someone who has depression and gets back to back fit notes declaring her unfit to work. She is perfectly capable of working and regularly goes out with friends, shopping, etc. It drives me absolutely mad. No kids to look after, either. I think a lot of people in this situation just get used to their life in this way, and actually working to earn your way through life, like the rest of us have to, seems alien to them.

I think you made a great point about not being included in workplace life contributing to the cycle of depression and keeping them there. Again my sister being an example. They most definitely lose the skillset to even be comfortable in a workplace once they have been absent from it for so long.

The gaming all night is something that really worries me about my own kids. I so hope they don't become the sort to do this. It most definitely encourages depression, and teenagers especially don't realise the impact this has on them, as well as seriously undervaluing the importance of enough sleep.

The parents that allow it definitely are part of the problem, though I think past a certain a point the young adults need to take responsibility for themselves to get themselves out of it.

It could be your sister isn't telling you the extent of her depression. I'm not working and I hate it, I have nothing to do apart from clean and scroll on my phone and I can't wait till I'm working again. I can't understand how anyone would choose to live like this, long-term, it's so boring and depressing in itself

I do feel you are being quite unrealistic about the job prospects of (some, not all) people with autism.

a friend of mine has a son with autism. He’s aged 46 and he has a full time live in carer (who used to be his nanny).

he’s got a cognitive age of about 3 and loves Thomas the tank engine. His bedroom is all Thomas the tank engine decorated and he has Thomas the tank engine plates. He loves watching Thomas episodes and plays (very simple) computer games about Thomas the tank engine. Usually the ones aimed at pre schoolers.

he’s got limited speech - he can say a few words but not really hold a full conversation.

if you try to stop him doing what he wants to do (eg you switch the tv off in the middle of a Thomas episode) he will be violent.

Panorama recently did a programme on autistic teens and how families are struggling with them - you may find it helpful to watch because it really conveys how limited some people with autism can be.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m002kk2j

now of course some people with autism are capable of working, but your post really does smack of “using autism as an excuse”.

And how is that their problem?

Hadn't considered that but I think you're right actually, that could account for a lot of it

Have 3 DC. 2 are studying and the eldest is between jobs. It’s been 2 months and I am already tearing my hair out. He is kind of looking I think but not as persistently as I would like. If things haven’t changed in a month, it’s time for tough love as he cannot live here, not working and not doing anything else constructive. In my experience, most of my friends kids are working, searching for work or studying so I don’t think it is the norm.

Around 20% of autistic adults are employed. This includes those with degrees and masters. All could be good enough employees with reasonable adjustments but employers don’t want to do that and the interview process is a huge disadvantage for many. This is not a parenting problem. A large pool of well qualified but unemployed or underemployed or inappropriately employed NT young people makes it even harder for young autistic people to find work even if able to do so.

@worldshottestmom

Why do you think you are in a better position to judge your sister’s condition to work better than the medical professionals who care for her?

Seeing friends doesn’t mean someone with depression is well enough to work. Socialising is an important coping mechanism for many depression sufferers.

Autism is such a broad diagnosis - each of my 3 sons have it but they are very differently affected. My elder and younger son will find employment and hold down a ‘normal’ life, whereas my middle son will never live independently.

There is probably an element of snobbery or not wanting dc exposed to unsavoury elements?
A few people made comments to me about dd working in McDonalds when there was ‘no need’

There are some jobs I just couldn't do though. My last job was on a production line and I had to quit because it was doing my back in and it was too painful, making the same movements over and over for ten hours while standing in the same spot not being able to sit or move around. Not to mention the mind- numbing monotony of it, anything would be better it's the worst job I've ever had and there's no way I would do it again