To think all these mothers bragging about working full time are just using their own mothers as unpaid childcare?

[Ruddeo]

I came to this realisation recently after years of being made to feel like a lazy piece of shit by them, because I had my first child when I was 16 and didn’t have a job until they went to school and this is part time.

Once you dig beneath the surface of the full time job, the active social life and weekends, 9 times out of 10 there’s a tired exhausted grandma who just wants some rest!

Err. no. Single mum (now), never lived in the same country as my parents since having kids.

I can't talk about having one at 16, as I had mine past 30 - but no.. I burn myself out, not my mother.

Me too, I very much regret spoiling my children with such things. I’ve made a rod for my own back! /s

Having a family member provide childcare doesn't diminish how hard the mum works though! If a mum is working full time, then she's working hard, whether she's paying for the childcare or has GPs who help! I am out of the house at 8 every morning, get home at 6.30 every evening, it's knackering! And it would be just as knackering if my mum was doing wraparound instead of paid for child care!

There's a lot here that's hard to stomach. I don't really believe the majority of working mums are bragging, my experience was that it was a choice driven by necessity of not being able to afford to stay at home. My experience was being subject to "won't you regret missing this time with them" when of course I bloody well did! I also don't believe many nurseriea (except school nurseries) are closing at 3.

What I think is that we currently live in a society where women feel trapping (in working or not working) when they might have chosen differently, if they had the option. And that creates resentment, whichever way round it is.

Of course raising children and working longer hours is much easier and more affordable if you have free childcare from immediate family. Of course people who have parents to pay for their childcare/school fees/holidays, etc have things much easier than those who don't. Ditto those with emotionally supportive, present grandparents or other family members. Life is not 'fair' though and some people are just luckier and have these advantages while others do not. Some people are also insensitive to others who don't have these advantages.

All you can do ,@Ruddeo is ignore these people who apparently brag or try to make you feel inadequate. Work on your self esteem and try to forget about the comments.

No that is only your experience. Our families are no where near us so we have had ZERO help from family.

If I look at my kids ten closest friends only a few get regular help.

Your generalisation is wrong. And while we are at it if there are five nurseries in our town all of them close after five.

I don’t know any stay at home mums. All of them work full time and use paid care.

People in the most senior roles in my experience have either not had children, had family help so they could stay as needed and travel beyond nursery and wraparound hours, or employed a nanny or au pair. It certainly helps if you can get something for free or have money you can use to start with to afford an extra room, but you'll make yourself miserable comparing. I have to work full time now but honestly I've always wanted to spend a significant amount of time each day with my children before bed ,and although it's not been the best decision financially, I don't regret it.

The majority of working mums aren’t teenagers though! Even if all teen mums have their mum doing childcare that’s still only a small proportion of mothers.

If a woman has a baby when she's a teenager there is an extremely high chance that their mum isn't yet retired, so won't be able to take on childcare 5 days a week. I think it's a tiny percentage of mums who (a) have babies before they are 18 and (b) have mums of their own who are available for childcare 5 days per week.

I have read OP's updates and she uses a lot of emotive language which suggests she has in no way processed her experiences or in a position to help and encourage others to do the same.

It’s not that strange have you really never heard anyone brag about how they “started driving at 17 and had their own car” without mentioning that their mum paid for all lessons and the car. Even if you haven’t heard anyone saying this surely it’s not hard to imagine?
It takes away from the brag because if they hadn’t paid for all the lessons and the car they most likely wouldn’t of had the car and been driving at 17, surely that’s not hard to understand?

Ive come across a few of these

Thank you, this is what I mean. Although I do know some grandparents who do absolutely everything. Even a few pickups a week or having the children when they’re ill and can’t go to school makes a big difference that a lot of people don’t seem to appreciate when making other people feel bad for not working as much as them

I don’t think you’re unreasonable here!

If it’s so easy to “flick the duster about” they or their partners could do it!

I think it’s fair enough to say that you learnt at 17 as you did at least have the get up and go to do the lessons and pass, even if someone else paid. Clearly the paying was a big help though!

I mean school is free for most people, but people still brag if they did well at it.

Maying bragging full stop is the issue though?

Being bought a car by someone else is clearly not something worth bragging about though.

I mean are they bragging or are they just stating a fact in a conversation!?

I do worry that I won’t be able to help my kids with their children much - even the extent to which I had some help from time to time from their non-local GPs.

I will likely be still working into my 70s and also will be broken by having always worked full time throughout with only two tiny maternity leaves, whilst also being a single parent from when they were 7 and 2.

I’m not even sure I’ll live to see my 70s!

I wonder if maybe some women of my generation (later Gen X) though not the OP’s see free GP childcare as their right, because their parents never had to do two full time jobs (working plus raising kids) simultaneously- in many cases one went to work and one stayed at home. Those women aren’t right to see it as their right but I wonder if that’s why.

I guess that varies from case to case!

I mean, full disclosure, I was one of those people who passed at 17 having been given driving lessons as a birthday gift. Never given a free car though!

I only mention it if I’m saying I’ve been driving for 30 years to suggest I’m a good driver!

So many problems on MN would be solved by simply getting better friends.

I definitely know some who have bragged while teasing others for being in their 20s and not driving yet. Not sure why there’s such insistence to tell me the people I know are just stating facts.

I’m beginning to wonder why you know so many awful people.

Full time nursery for my two. Nearest grandparents over two hours away. Only twice in their childhood did a grandparent have them on their own for one night!

I literally used to weep driving to work when I calculated nursery fees/ car costs and my actual take home pay. That was my decision though and I hope I didn't 'brag'.

Totally agree! I've never encountered this issue at all.

You must know a lot of incredibly dense and limited people, if their conversation consists, as you suggest, of telling you they work full-time and can drive, in between calling you 'a lazy piece of shit'. I mean, it's hardly the Algonquin Round Table, is it?

Not everyone has parents paying for driving lessons Neither my brothers or I did. Nor the greatest majority of our friends That's what jobs were to pay for.