To think all these mothers bragging about working full time are just using their own mothers as unpaid childcare?

[Ruddeo]

I came to this realisation recently after years of being made to feel like a lazy piece of shit by them, because I had my first child when I was 16 and didn’t have a job until they went to school and this is part time.

Once you dig beneath the surface of the full time job, the active social life and weekends, 9 times out of 10 there’s a tired exhausted grandma who just wants some rest!

Er... my mum died before I had my kids and my DH's parents live on another continent so no, I had zero family help (and I worked full time and later started my own business from scratch).

Pretty sure nurseries wouldn't exist if the number of parents using them was as tiny as you suggest 😂

Oh, and the extra costs that nurseries charge like food and nappies are not covered by UC. So there is another loss.

I dont know anyone whose mum provides regular childcare. Most women (and men) i know work full time and use paid childcare. Given how hard it can be in some areas to find a nursery or childminder space i think thats pretty common

Has anyone actually accused op of lying or like me have they just asked “who exactly has said directly to you you are lazy?”

That's what I don't understand. I was under 40 when first DGC was born. I was and still am working full time. Another 4 grandchildren later

Unfortunately I'm not lucky enough to have had the option of my mother helping me with childcare as she died in 2023 when my youngest was just 2. My daughter is in full time paid childcare (8.30 - 5.30pm), in advance of starting school later this year, as I have began a new career and completely retrained in my 40s. I worked part-time when my older children were young and life was a whole lot easier. I work harder now as I have to do all the house tasks and admin in the evenings and at the weekend. I do it because I'm thinking of my career, job satisfaction over the next 20 years, and my pension. I'm not sure how it's hard to grasp that everyone has different circumstances and makes different choices accordingly. It seems terribly judgemental to assume things about other people and their lives. Why not just do what's right for you? It would never occur to me to look down on someone else who wasn't working full-time. Perhaps you are projecting your own insecurities?

I think the OP didn’t make the best opening post in that it’s clearly wrong (another full timer here that had no grandparent childcare).

There is a reality though that if you have a baby at 16 your life will be tough. If you have parental support to continue studying or working your outcomes are likely to be better. The OP is talking about her peer group (which sound like other younger mums). If any of my daughter’s got pregnant young I’d be gutted (and to be frank would be encouraging an abortion) but if they wanted to keep a baby, I’d be helping them as much as possible so they could continue their education and improve their life chances.

Having a parent who babysits and working hard, be it in your career and/or at the gym, aren’t mutually exclusive. If a mum works hard for long hours, why can’t she talk about it? If it makes you feel bad, that’s a you issue. Run your own race, like she’s running hers (in the gym while her mum babysits).

Good for her, wouldn’t care if these people didn’t also try and make you feel lazy for not working as much as them/going to the gym. No different to people who brag about driving since they were 17 and don’t tell you mummy and daddy paid for every lesson and the car too.
Genuinely wouldn’t care if they didn’t try and act like they are superior

You will never get people to understand the difficulties faced by some.
Don't let their opinion upset you.
They will never understand

You will never get people to understand the difficulties faced by some.
Don't let their opinion upset you.
They will never understand

ETA duplicate post

No different to people who brag about driving since they were 17 and don’t tell you mummy and daddy paid for every lesson and the car too.

I don’t understand this. If someone has been driving since they were 17, I’m going to assume their parents paid for their lessons and their car.

It’s not unusual. How many 17 year olds are out in the world fully independent and supporting themselves? I would imagine it would be close to zero.

I’ve never actually heard someone bragging about driving, just like I’ve never actually heard someone bragging about working full time. Those are really strange things to brag about.

Oh for heaven’s sake, do you generalise much? “These people”. All of them trying to make poor you feel bad.

How you feel is entirely of your own choosing. Nobody can make you feel anything. As I said, run your own race.

Anyway, best of luck to you.

I genuinely don't know anyone who has grandparents doing full time childcare and I don't know a single kid that hasn't been to some form of paid childcare, including my own kids and I'm a SAHM.

YABU

I’ve never actually heard someone bragging about driving, just like I’ve never actually heard someone bragging about working full time. Those are really strange things to brag about.

It’s something you see a lot on here. Not so much bragging but expressing horror that people can’t drive by their twenties. They don’t countenance that some people (lots actually) have parents who couldn’t afford to pay for driving lessons.

I've always worked full-time, and I've always paid for childcare. I can assure you that I'm not bragging about working full-time; I would much prefer being independently wealthy. Foolishly, I got my children used to things like food and a home and clothes, which necessitate me working full-time.

To be fair, I disagree with OP that 9/10 working mothers have help from mothers/MIL but these sort of comments aren’t helping - having DM ‘help with school pick ups a couple of days a week’ and ‘making tea’ are exactly the kind of privilege OP is calling out. For those of us who don’t have that help ‘a couple of days a week’ even if only for pick up, is the difference between working full time and part time. So I agree there is a lot of unpaid ‘help’ behind the scenes on MN that women generally don’t want to admit to, which is probably part of the reason people like OP feel hard done by.

Edited to say I’m not suggesting the poster I’ve quoted is hiding behind the scenes as they are being honest about the help they’ve received from their mum but I think the expectation that it’s normal to have help with pick ups/tea “a couple of days a week” is what is actually fuelling this debate between mums.

OP said "9/10 times there's a tired, exhausted grandma who just wants some rest" She didn't say "9/10 times women have some help from family."

If you read the OP properly, she wasn't actually "calling out" the "privilege" of having family help 🙄. She wasn't saying she thinks 9/10 women in full time work have some help from grandma, she was implying in 9/10 cases grandma does all the childcare unpaid. I think that assertion is incorrect, most working parents aren't expecting their exhausted mothers to do full time childcare and then bragging about being in full time work. OP likely just has the misfortune of unpleasant friends.

Part of my point was that while DM did offer help, I was also conscious of the level of that help being reasonable and manageable. I didn't want her to become a tired, exhausted grandma who might eventually resent it or feel tied and unable to enjoy her retirement. DM has certainly seen some of her friends commit to extensive childcare responsibilities and then regret it later.

I do think it would be fair to say a good number of working families have some help to some degree. I think situations where families use a mixture of paid childcare and family are probably more common. And in my own situation, we'd have paid for childcare if there was no help, I'd still have gone back FT because by the time DC were in school, we were better off even with paid childcare. But I suppose you could also argue that still being married/with your child's father is "privilege" because you can share school runs between you. If people are determined to feel hard done by and resent others, they'll find a hook to hang it on.

Read the OP properly before you post calling out others for their "privilege".

No different to people who brag about driving since they were 17 and don’t tell you mummy and daddy paid for every lesson and the car too

Good lord, what a chip you are carrying. I would assume people don’t think to add this to the conversation as it’s not deemed relevant. I’ve been driving with full license since 16yo (am several decades old and age limit where I am used to be 15yo for learning and 16yo to be able to do test and get license), but would never think to add ‘and mummy and daddy paid for my lessons, and I got an old car of theirs’. How utterly weird. Similarly, I don’t think any of my kids would ever add this if talking about driving as it’s the most common scenario, so why would you specify it?

Kindly, it sounds like you are bitter that people have help and have perceived that as 9/10 of them boasting.

Some people of course will judge your situation but you are judging them very disparagingly too.

A lot of us use paid childcare and have never had any help from our parents. The most mine have ever done is one hour’s babysitting in ten years.

How does bragging about working full time go? I’m not sure how to show off about that. If anything I think it would seem more of a flex to be a lady of leisure, going to get my hair and nails done or reading books all day while the rest of the world works away.

Nurseries finishing at 3?! Presumably these are school nurseries? Every private nursery I’ve ever heard of finishes at 6pm or later.

I might be focussing on the wrong point here but if one did want to brag about driving at 17 (which is a very strange brag as that’s the legal age to start driving - that’s like bragging about starting school at age 4), I don’t see how parents paying for the lessons takes away from the brag?

Grandma helping out for a few hours is nothing like your opening theory that women worked off the back of their exhausted slaving mother 7 days a week.

full time mum here currently home with an ill 4yo , we pay for long day care 5 days a week and after school care for our older children.

I'm a single parent and about to get divorced. I've done one year of part time (80%) after returning from maternity leave. I'm about to switch back to full time. My kids are in nursery and wrap-around care (and no, their father does not contribute financially to that...). My DP are on hand in case of an emergency, yes, but they certainly aren't being used for general childcare.
Ridiculous.

If your job doesn't work in terms of timings, it might be an idea to change jobs.