Just get mounjaro!

[Pinklightning]

The more threads I read, the more and more posters seem to respond with “just get mounjaro” for posters wanting to lose as little as 10 lbs to get within a healthy BMI. More traditional methods of weight loss appear to be out of fashion and as though you’d be foolish to do it the perceived hard way when you can just inject a drug.
I was reading a thread where a poster had a BMI of just over 25 who was told to just get WLIs. What happened to them being for those who are obese?
Is this the way things are going now? Gained a few pounds over Christmas or on holiday? Just inject and don’t worry about it!
Anybody going against the grain of weight loss injections is often accused of being jealous. It’s a bit cult like on some threads as though WLI are the only valid way to lose weight and you’d be foolish to try any other way because “diets don’t work” and just adopting a healthier diet and lifestyle is laughable; a fool’s game and you’ll end up fat again. Well, yes, if you go back to your old habits, just like any method of weight loss.

Just a bit of a rant really on this sunny Tuesday!

Just to clarify, when you say jabs alone, are you talking about shorter term or long term usage? Because for people who want to stop taking them that makes sense, but the poster you're replying to is talking about long term usage.

And it's not immediately obvious why, say, education about portion size is required to prevent weight regain for someone who simply eats as much as they need to feel satiated, has found that this is much less when on WLIs and will continue on a maintenance dose. Same with lack of exercise. Obviously we do all need to exercise, and having a healthy BMI but sitting on your arse all the time isn't great. But exercise isn't usually much of a factor in obesity.

I’m talking about the collective faux concern people have over strangers. You’re a parent, it’s your job to be concerned about many things. People (mainly women) have always felt pressure to be slim, and some people will always abuse drugs.

Thinking about the current state of the world, as a parent, WLI wouldn’t be at the top of my concern list.

I've no personal problem with people worrying about misuse of the jabs impacting on their kids. It's just the other part of that picture is that pre WLIs, the overweight and obese numbers were only going up. Just short of two thirds in 2024.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/update-to-the-obesity-profile-on-fingertips/obesity-profile-short-statistical-commentary-may-2024

So the health impacts of being overweight and obese are very much something the median person's children will be affected by when they grow up. There are things we can do as we're bringing our kids up, of course, but not when they're middle aged, the weight's crept on and the risk factors are climbing. But now, if they get to that stage, we have WLIs!

The poster I replied to is talking about relapse, the length of the usage isn’t specified. (Or at least not in that quote).

Regarding portion size - I guess it depends on approach to food, how long they’ve been on the jabs, whether they’re taking maintenance dose keeping their appetite reduced etc

Exericise is a significant factor in maintaining a healthy weight. The NHS lists lack of physical activity as “important factor related to obesity.” It also recommends a minimum 150 mins of moderate-intensity aerobic exercise weekly, and states that for people living with obesity or trying to lose weight they may need more.

It's not on the top of mine either but I'm commenting on this particular thread. But yes the state of current affairs and what is happening around the world right now is frightening.

The poster you quote is replying to someone who was asking why people keep using a maintenance dose when no longer overweight, that's why I wondered.

Exercise is important, but you're not going to find evidence that'll back up the claim you made. The NHS recommendations don't say that a person who was formerly obese but now isn't will regain weight if they don't exercise, whether on WLIs or otherwise. I also notice that 'important factor related to obesity' is helpfully vague, saves them having to pin anything down!

While they're right to recommend exercise, it's not the same point. This is really important, because we don't want overweight or obese people to think exercise will make them lose weight and keep it off, then to feel deterred when it doesn't. It's still worth doing anyway. As are lots of things that fall short of the incredibly high bar of making/keeping an obese person a healthy BMI but are still beneficial.

On portion size, I concur that whether the person is taking a maintenance dose is likely to be the deciding factor.

This was on the radio this morning

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m002sn3m

One of the things he talks about is the importance of exercise for maintenance

Jens Juul Holst on the gut hormone discovery behind weight-loss drugs
The Life Scientific

As recently as a few years ago, the idea of a self-administered injection that would deliver proven weight-loss results might have sounded fantastical. Today, these medications are a reality and a global phenomenon; hailed in many quarters as “miracle drugs" for their success in treating obesity and diabetes.

They do this by replicating a gut hormone called GLP‑1, which tells the brain you’ve eaten enough and nudges the pancreas to release insulin; and this hormone was discovered and decoded thanks to years of work by today's guest.

Jens Juul Holst is a Professor of Medical Physiology and Biomedical Sciences at the University of Copenhagen. His efforts laid the groundwork for today’s weight loss jabs, earning him a slew of high-profile accolades and awards. Now it seems they might not only have positive impacts on obesity and diabetes, but also other health issues...

But alongside the big success comes some big questions: including concerns over side effects, weight regain post-treatment, the black market in such drugs, and their cost and accessibility.

In a frank conversation with Professor Jim Al-Khalili, Jens address these issues and shares his hopes for the future of GLP-1-focused research.

Thankyou @SilenceInside that is indeed the post I was responding to. There are 2 separate issues here I think. I agree that no one should be using WLI if they are only slightly overweight, but some people will always seek to misuse any drug, so it’s very difficult to police that.

However, for people who are considerably overweight, WLI are a perfectly legitimate treatment. Obesity increases the risk of many serious illnesses, and consequently puts a huge strain on NHS resources. As Mounjaro has been used for many years to control diabetes, it has already been stringently tested and is not associated with a significant level of risk to patients. As the medication will be working in the same way for everyone, regardless of whether they are using it for diabetes or weight loss, I cannot see how it is anyway more risky for the latter.

As with ALL medication, there are potential side effects, but IMO the potential reported side effects of Mounjaro are greatly outweighed by the proven morbidities associated with obesity.

There’s plenty of evidence to support the importance of exercise in weight maintenance. But it’s true to say that you can’t outrun a bad diet and when it comes to actual weight loss calorie reduction is the primary driver.

I went out for the day, and was much longer than anticipated, and came back to find the thread had quickly descended into a regular WLI bun fight, which is not what I intended at all. Thank you to those who responded to my actual OP. It appears it’s a subject too emotive for sensible discussion but I appreciate those who tried. It will be interesting to see how things have progressed in 5-10 years in terms of weight loss drugs and how they are being used/what they are being used for. Hopefully, if the NHS still exists by then, they will be prescribed by the NHS and people won’t need to go privately and spend a fortune. It would put an end to, or at least severely restrict, any abuses.

One thing I didn’t mention in my OP was the amount of people who say they have binge eating disorder who are taking these drugs when they are contraindicated in eating disorders. It makes me question how ethical the private companies are. I’m not sure they care about their customers when they are raking it in. The NHS is a mess though and private profiteering is bound to be a problem as it takes up the NHS’s slack.

I think it’s quite naive to expect an emotive OP about WLI to not turn into the usual type of thread with the usual misinformation, judgement, etc etc. It is of course an emotive subject, we know that women and weight is a topic of constant focus in our society. It is possible to have a sensible discussion though imo, by responding to sensible points and ignoring the overly emotive or perhaps goady posts.

The online pharmacies do varying levels of checks on the information people submit, and they vary as to whether GPs are informed automatically or not: best practice is that they should inform GPs, but that assumes that there is a formal record of an eating disorder on the patient’s NHS record. That won’t always be the case for many people who feel they have a binge eating disorder.

Private online providers are clearly businesses first and foremost, but they are regulated and inspected and can be reported if breaches are suspected or known. If it is shown that many of them are not doing enough due diligence then guidelines will be tightened and sanctions applied where necessary.

It is indeed. And that's my point: because exercise is so much less important than other factors, though beneficial in general of course, it's not the case that a person who lost weight through WLIs is going to put the weight back on if they don't exercise sufficiently.

People are often very attached to the idea that jabs don't fix the underlying problem, which needs to be fixed in order to maintain a healthy weight. It comes up a lot. My guess is that's because there are some people who would benefit from things like psychological and nutritional assistance, and it sounds comforting. The posters who say this usually sound like they mean well. But actually, sometimes the underlying 'problem' is simply wanting to eat too much, and jabs absolutely can fix that.

If the patient doesn’t declare an eating disorder and lies then the prescriber can’t know it, it is not their fault. These people won’t have it on their medical records either.

its not the prescribers fault, they can’t come into peoples homes and record their activities. Personal responsibility is a thing.

I'm not sure what you don't understand?

My question was really simple (I thought)...Do you feel a calling to tell the users of all medication the risks of coming off the medication, or just those that are using medication to lose weight?

And clearly given your sarcastic response and eye roll emoji, it's only users of WLI that you the need to get involved with. So I want to understand that.

I love facts, what I don't love is moral superiority where it's uninvited and an assumption that users of WLI are too stupid to understand how it works.

There is no way this is a genuine thing you've thought in your head and typed out.

If it is, it really does perfectly highlight the ignorance around WLI's by people who don't use or need them.

Because for some people, obesity is a chronic condition, which is biological and needs medication to treat.

Happy to introduce myself. I run 5k three times a week, walk at least 6k a day with the dog (often more) and attend the gym twice a week for strength training. My gym has a good handful of people (that I know of, I'm sure there are plenty that I don't) who are all WLI users.

If people are telling their children they take WLI, I think it gives kids the impression that you understand the danger of being overweight/obese on your health and are actively taking steps to address it.

I personally don't know anyone taking them that's 'just a few lbs' overweight.
Everyone I know was obese and had tried for years to lose weight/lost and regained. But obviously that's anecdotal and I'm not sure what the actual stats are regarding who takes them (but I imagine given the prescribing criteria that more people are obese than not).

@Binus It is the case, as I said, that there is plenty of evidence to support the importance of exercise in weight maintenance. And as someone who’s maintained a healthy weight their whole life, I can attest to its importance.

If you've always been a healthy weight, you're not really in a position to attest to the importance of exercise in making/keeping obese people a healthy BMI. No offence like, it's just you're not part of the group being discussed so your life can't be relevant evidence. I certainly agree that exercise is important, but as a formerly obese person who got that way despite exercising and who wasn't able to reverse my obesity even though I exercised, my anecdata is more relevant than yours here.

You need to be sure you're not blurring the line between exercise in weight maintenance generally and your claim that a formerly obese person who hasn't been doing enough exercise isn't going to be able to stay a normal weight without addressing that. It's just not true, and the reason it's not true is because, as you said yourself, you can't outrun diet.

I don't know anyone on the wli that do any exercise at all!

I don't know any people on WLI (and I know plenty) who doesn't exercise. I go to gym at least daily. Yes, at least - yesterday was there both before and after work. Pure laziness.

Me neither, I’ve four friends on tnem, all started when they saw my results, all go to the gym, personalky I do 5-6 times a week. Any thread on here and you’d see people in the main workout, sure a minority don’t. But it is unusual to know multiple people on them and none work out.

Why was that funny? 🤔

Someone who has maintained a healthy weight their whole life (even with exercise) does not have the hunger or food noise that a yo-yo dieter has.

I’m somewhere in the middle - yo-yo dieter despite having a gym habit - I exercise every day. Provided I eat wholefoods and enough protein even without MJ my weight won’t go above a BMI of 27/28.

With MJ (very low dose) I can keep my BMI at 23 without huge amounts of willpower.

It's totally different to the thread you linked. That's an OP asking for advice on their own body and how to improve it.

A thread being put out about other peoples weight loss methods isn't comparable at all.

Did you actually read that thread? Because if you had you will know that the person who started that thread said they lied in order to obtain WLI, that they were so focused on chasing a number on the scales that they'd lost sight of the fact that their strength had dropped and felt that they were no longer happy with how they looked.

I am failing to see how the above isn't relevant to a thread about WLIs? Please enlighten me.