To tell a friend I can’t continue this level of help?

[Cosmicpickle]

The context I suppose is that I have 2 under 2, husband does work long hours but is genuinely great both as a partner and as a dad, I know I’m very lucky there and no complaints. Our friends had a baby at the same time we had our youngest, there is one week between them. My youngest is what I’d call an easy baby, sleeps well, feeds well, happy to just be here and really is no hassle at all beyond what you’d expect from a 4 month old. My friends baby on the other hand is a more difficult baby, doesn’t sleep well, cries a lot, issues with feeding, doesn’t like to be put down etc. Her partner isn’t a great support, see’s his days off as his time, his time after work as his down time- you get the picture, not particularly helpful. Her mum goes round 2 days a week to help her out and when the babies were tiny she asked if I would mind taking her baby for a few hours a couple days a week so she could catch up on sleep, rest, clean etc as she was really struggling. I remember all too well how hard it was being a first time mum with a tricky baby so I was happy to help and initially it was 2 days a week, 9am-lunchtime ish, yes it was a handful with my own 2 plus hers but it was okay and I knew she was finding it hard.

The problem is that now the babies are 4 months old and we’re still doing this except over time it has become longer and longer. The last two weeks one of the days has been 9:30am until 5pm, tomorrow she has asked if it could be the same and has also asked if I could have him overnight on Saturday so she can go out. Now I can manage but obviously with 2 under 2 myself it can be tricky and just a lot really with the 3, and the overnight- her partner isn’t working, he’s off, but she knows he won’t agree to have their child alone overnight so has asked me instead.

It feels like it has become just too much and I need to pull back a bit but is that unreasonable? I know she is struggling, genuinely, and I know how hard that is, I don’t want to be cruel and I don’t want to make her life harder, I can manage, I don’t mind helping, but this just feels like too much now. Especially as the babies aren’t tiny newborns anymore who are happy to just be in the pram or sleeping, days out are getting trickier with a toddler and 2 babies! AIBU?

I’m gonna be honest, after reading all of this, I’m highly suspicious of your friend and what she’s doing.
So two other women (you and her Mum) have her child more than 50% of the week? And now she’s asking for an extra overnight stay?
Do Mums with PND organise a night out at 4 months? I don’t know.

Honestly, 4 month-old baby aside, it sounds like she’s having an affair 🥲 Mum and friend covering daytime care for baby, desperately doesn’t want anyone to inform the husband, wants an overnight stay, turning up at your house panicked that you’re pulling back.
I know PND can manifest itself in different ways but I don’t know a mother who is desperate for sleep and to clean (to the point of not caring for their child 4 days a week) who also has organised a night out when baby is 4 months old.

She’s utterly taking the piss. Completely.
You have 2 under 2, if you are such a lifeline for her that she’s desperate not to lose your help, she couldn’t offer to have your kids in return for even 1 hour? Not even 1 hour to make
it remotely fair on you?

What is she like when you’re with her and the children together? Does she seem capable? Frazzled? Distracted by her phone? Keen to get home? Keen to prolong your time together?

Don’t see her tomorrow. Enjoy giving your own children a happy, easy fun day and all of your attention for a change! I’d have a word with the HV, mention it to her mum and then step right back. She isn’t going to be happy about you no longer doing more parenting than she is and she’s going to carry on guilt tripping you and then will probably turn nasty when you don’t give in.

I know you feel shit about it all but when you take a step back you’ll see the madness it’s all been as we can from reading it at distance. Her baby needs her to buck her fucking ideas up and actually be a mum.

I’m probably going to get flamed for this but the lady doth protest too much.

OP - given her unwillingness to go to a doctor, keenness for this not to be mentioned to her husband and the fibs about the amount of time her mum is having baby and also this apparent Saturday night out without her husband… She’s not having an affair is she?

She won't be developing her knowledge of the baby, so helping her so much will just end up compounding the problem.

I remember that in the early days I hated other people taking the baby away for too long and passing him around because I lost my flow of knowing how he was/what he needed next.

However useless her partner is, he's at least there during two days, then the baby is off with other people for four days (two of which are with two other babies).

I'm not surprised the baby is difficult when it's being shifted from pillar to post like this!

Why can’t your DH bring it up to hers in a ‘Jenny doesn’t seem herself’ way and see what he says? If they’re good mates and he genuinely doesn’t seem a dick? Other than that I’d suggest a mother’s help or something like that, the level of support she’s needing should come from her DP and her mum not you! I’ve had crippling PND 3 times, 3 different and difficult breastfeeding experiences, no family nearby and I never took the piss or dumped my kids on friends who also had their own kids - struggling is fine lots of us do but it sounds like she’s gone too far.

Also OP if your agreement is 9-12 then you stick to that and you take him back! You’re not a free childminder!

@xOlive snap - I thought the same.

I agree. I also think that if the mother knew that OP was helping out so much she would have mentioned it, even indirectly, while chatting to OP.

Separately @Cosmicpickle, I had to be really blunt with a dear friend who was emotionally embroiled with a hopeless alcoholic and just couldn't let go. After two years I told her I would no longer be available for identical late night circular conversations. That seemed to be a turning point for her and we're still as close as ever.

It's not the same situation, but I'd urge you to be brave and tell her "you're an intelligent woman and I love you, but for both our sakes, surely you can see we can't carry on like this? Something has to give, and this (get to GP, speak to HV) is what we're going to do about it" and just get it done.

ETA. I've only just seen your latest update. Good luck and be firm.

You are being a lovely friend OP. There are so many possibilities here but it does sound like she could be suffering from PND.

Next time you see her mum with the baby could you have a private word with her about your concerns? I would also mention it to the health visitor.

If you’re happy to have the baby for a couple of hours here and there then you could continue to offer that support but you need to set firm boundaries with it and push her to get get help. Could you offer to go to the GP with her? Make it a condition of you helping her that she seeks help for herself?

Exactly what I’ve just posted a minute before you. It screams affair to me 🙈 I may also get flamed but… I’d have the baby and follow her 😂

I would tell her im only going to look after her baby if she does go to the GP. She needs to make it perfectly clear that if she is not going to help herself for the sake of her newborn baby fgs, then OP isnt going to help her either.

I get this feeling like shes just used to this arrangement now, and doesnt want to give up her cushy life. Playing on PND and crying whenever someone questions her to manipulate them.

I really hope if she does need help then she gets it for the baby's sake, but reading over the post again idk, it all seems very self-centred and manipulative from this friend.

She is massively taking the piss out of you! She’s using you as free childcare! Just tell her you were there to help when she first had the baby but you’ve got to prioritise your own family now. No way I’d still be doing this

Her plan is to attend an afternoon brunch in town with friends and I know the plans are definitely genuine because some of them are also my friends so I was invited, I’m not going but I do know they have the table booked and she had agreed to go. Obviously she could have her own plans and that could be a cover but I wouldn’t know if that is the case.

We really have been friends for a long time and close, I would really hope if she was genuinely in that position we are close enough that she would let me know but I couldn’t say for sure.

After speaking with my own mum tonight who did suffer with PND after having both of us I’ve decided against going tomorrow and to call the health visitor instead and really stress that I think someone needs to check on her quickly. As my mum has pointed out if she really is in crisis then I’m not qualified to help and having 3 very young children in the room isn’t particularly helpful when trying to have a serious chat anyway.

I do feel bad, she is not the same person right now that I have ever known her to be, but I worry the help needed is beyond what I’m capable of.

Lmao @Cosmicpickle please do this. It may actually shed some light on the situation.

Yes I do, a very spirited 2 year old and a teenager and have always looked after my friends/family children when they have needed me too, as they do for me to. Daft to assume they would be deprived with anything less then 100% undivided attention for any length of time?

You've handled this beautifully so far OP

Don't go round tomorrow - she will just try and guilt you. Wait until you are on mutual ground. Maybe a coffee after the baby class or something.

Also, a few posters have mentioned an affair, it did cross my mind, although anyone who has the energy for an affair with a newborn, is a better built human than me. But, do you know what she does on her 'days off'? And make no mistake, she is getting FOUR FULL DAYS OFF A WEEK right now.....

wait, what - the father of the baby is at home and you are asked to take this tiny 4-month old baby overnight, because the father will not agree to take care of his own baby?

I don't see why your DH can't have a stern word with this useless waste of space - not like it's a secret he would be looking after his friend's baby while the friend just sits there.

@QuaintMauveCrowlooked after? Sure. Done anything even remotely like the extent of what the op has done with a baby and toddler? Nope I reckon not

Yep. And odds on her already being pregnant again?

Cross posted with you OP. I am glad your DH and Mum are helping you navigate this and I agree with all the decisions you're making. FWIW.

Does she ever do anything for you?

Hi OP, take this as a mum of two little people who is a raging people pleaser - yaNbu. When people started taking the mick with me in terms of using my kindness and almost doormat-level of helpfulness, I was so grateful to have a few people nearby who told me what was actually a normal level of helpfulness. You have a tiny baby AND a toddler. It is bonkers that your friend is asking this of you and she obviously has got to the point now where she is relying on you in the way you should be relying on a partner.

You are unwittingly creating a dependency that it will be impossible to maintain. It only needs either you, or one of your babies to be ill, and then where will she be?
You really need to stop now, I think. You are already in far too deep for anyone's good, including your friend and her unwanted baby.
If she has PND (I had it. I didn't want nights out, I could hardly open the door, never mind summon the energy to relentlessly emotional blackmall and browbeat a friend) if she has PND, she needs professional help.
If she's living a lie, as it seems might be true, she needs you to stop enabling it.

Sorry, but hell would freeze over before I went round there tomorrow
, after today's behaviour - if you feel you need an excuse, say your own children need you, which will certainly be true

Otherwise I agree with so many about having a word with her mum and the health visitor. With the lies about her mum's input it seems to have got to the point where the kind of help she wants isn't actually helping anyone at all, so time for the professionals to step in

That’s quite an assumption? OP recognises her limits and has done something about it, I very much doubt she has deprived her children in the process. She sounds like a very caring, and loving mother. Your limitations are not others too, it doesn’t have to be that extreme. That’s my point.

How is this baby when you have them? Is it as bad as she say's it is? All babies eventually sleep and that's when Mum's catch up on theirs. It's a new way of living and she needs to get used to that.
I think stopping your help is the best thing you can do. She will have to face up to the fact that she can't cope, even when she has help 4 days of the week.
I don't think your DH talking to her's is going to help. It's a step too far and a breach of confidence.
Stick to the facts, you helped initially but can't continue doing so. Heck, even say that you are struggling looking after 3 children and need to establish a better routine for your own. You've been amazing, you've done more than your fair share.