To tell a friend I can’t continue this level of help?

[Cosmicpickle]

The context I suppose is that I have 2 under 2, husband does work long hours but is genuinely great both as a partner and as a dad, I know I’m very lucky there and no complaints. Our friends had a baby at the same time we had our youngest, there is one week between them. My youngest is what I’d call an easy baby, sleeps well, feeds well, happy to just be here and really is no hassle at all beyond what you’d expect from a 4 month old. My friends baby on the other hand is a more difficult baby, doesn’t sleep well, cries a lot, issues with feeding, doesn’t like to be put down etc. Her partner isn’t a great support, see’s his days off as his time, his time after work as his down time- you get the picture, not particularly helpful. Her mum goes round 2 days a week to help her out and when the babies were tiny she asked if I would mind taking her baby for a few hours a couple days a week so she could catch up on sleep, rest, clean etc as she was really struggling. I remember all too well how hard it was being a first time mum with a tricky baby so I was happy to help and initially it was 2 days a week, 9am-lunchtime ish, yes it was a handful with my own 2 plus hers but it was okay and I knew she was finding it hard.

The problem is that now the babies are 4 months old and we’re still doing this except over time it has become longer and longer. The last two weeks one of the days has been 9:30am until 5pm, tomorrow she has asked if it could be the same and has also asked if I could have him overnight on Saturday so she can go out. Now I can manage but obviously with 2 under 2 myself it can be tricky and just a lot really with the 3, and the overnight- her partner isn’t working, he’s off, but she knows he won’t agree to have their child alone overnight so has asked me instead.

It feels like it has become just too much and I need to pull back a bit but is that unreasonable? I know she is struggling, genuinely, and I know how hard that is, I don’t want to be cruel and I don’t want to make her life harder, I can manage, I don’t mind helping, but this just feels like too much now. Especially as the babies aren’t tiny newborns anymore who are happy to just be in the pram or sleeping, days out are getting trickier with a toddler and 2 babies! AIBU?

You sound like an amazing friend with an incredible amount of empathy. Whatever the root cause of her problems, she needs more help than you alone can give her. It can be really hard to set boundaries, especially when you're concerned for her well being, but asking her to seek further help for her issues/pnd may be the best thing you can do for her.

it really does take a villiage, so whatever happens you should be proud of how you have been supporting her and accept that you can't take it all on your shoulders.

You have done more than enough. As she is genuinely struggling I would help out occasionally as in 2 hours now and again. Never overnight or a full day. That is too much for you and really cheeky of her to ask.

At this point @Cosmicpickle you've almost got her baby for the same amount of days per week that she has them - absolutely crazy.

Your friend is a cheeky fucker. She asked you to commit to looking after her newborn twice a week knowing full well you have your own newborn and a toddler to look after. You've been far too kind doing this at all. As for her needing a sitter overnight tell her to tell her baby's father to step up and actually be an active parent for once. You're totally not unreasonable to say no. She needs telling some home truths. Her lack of a helpful partner isn't your problem

You have done your part she needs to now access proper support and stop taking the easy way out eapecially when she has a partner in the home. She is also not going to learn to manage with the baby if she is passing them off to you and her mum more than half the weeek!

The issue is if the baby is with you two days and her mum
two days she’s not getting into a routine at home. They baby must be pretty placid to cope with that chopping and changing.

Can you speak to her mum? Or does she have a sister?

I'd put my friend above principle and let her decide how she manages her marriage.

It's a difficult one and the sort of situation I'd be a bit uncomfortable in. I'm great at putting my foot down with genuine pisstakers but when somebody is genuinely struggling and starting to lean a bit too heavily for support it's tough.

Ultimately, you've already done more than enough but you're probably looking at her and realising that she has it hard and will probs be in a more stressful situation than yourself without your help. However, this isn't of course your problem or your doing.

I think I'd probs have a word though and say you need to pull back a bit as your own children are becoming more demanding with age. Hopefully, it'll galvanise her husband into action, although it could also result in her really struggling on her own.

I think he might be abusive.

Well it has all blown up a bit. She never replied to my text but I could see she had read it, I sort of thought that was going to be it but she turned up at our house later this afternoon in floods of tears, saying she can’t cope, I suggested the GP again and she is adamant she doesn’t want medication she just “needs support”. I have said again that she is always welcome to come out with us or come round here, that I can pop into hers if that is easier so she can still do housework etc if that is the issue, she always has been welcome and does sometimes come on days out with us to playgroups/cafes etc anyway, but she insists that doesn’t really help because she needs the time to sleep, rest and take care of herself. We went back and forth for a bit with her still upset until my husband came home, he told her this isn’t fair, she needs the support of her partner and said again he is happy to speak to him and again she just seemed really panicked at the mention of that and asked him not to then left still in tears. It has made me worry a bit about the relationship, I’ve never got the impression that he is abusive but I know you see a very different man in a relationship than you do as a friend so I think my husband is going to keep quiet incase it makes her home life worse.

The thing that is sort of giving me pause for thought is that in amongst all of this, she has told me today that her mum doesn’t do 2 days with the baby she only comes for an hour “if that” in the morning on 2 days so that she can have a shower/breakfast/get ready for the day and that it has been this way for weeks now apparently. The thing is I know that isn’t true because on one of her mum’s days I take mine to a sensory play class thing at a centre which has a cafe and her mum also brings her baby there every week, and is always in the cafe beforehand as we stop and chat. Obviously I don’t know if her mum does do all day still but I do know that at least on that day she is doing more than just an hour in the morning, the class is at 2pm and as I say she is always in the cafe with baby before that having lunch. It has made me question really whether if she is downplaying the help she gets from her mum, maybe she is also downplaying the help she gets from her partner. I don’t know, all I know is what she tells me and I’ve believed what she said but it has made me wonder if maybe her worry about us mentioning anything to her partner might he actually because he isn’t as rubbish as she says he is. She could also be downplaying the help she gets from me to her mum & partner for all I know.

I don’t feel great about it all to be honest. Regardless of the lies she does seem really stressed and overwhelmed, she has sent a message since leaving asking me again to make sure my husband doesn’t say anything and saying she will pay me to look after her son going forward. I’ve said it’s not about money, it’s time and practicality of having 3 very young children, she just keeps asking me to please reconsider “even just for a few more weeks until she can get her feet on the ground” but my worry is that if she isn’t prepared to go to the GP or speak to her partner about stepping up (if that is the case) then things won’t be any different in 3 weeks and then I’ll be back here again.

Just not sure where we go from here really I am worried about her and she obviously isn’t coping, I don’t know whether it might be worth me mentioning it to the health visitor myself, if you can even do that? I know who her health visitor is because we live close and have the same one so I could give her a call but I’m not sure if that’s a done thing? Granted I’m no GP but the things she has said today, that she can’t cope with this, that her baby is happier here with me, he doesn’t like being at home etc to me really does seem like PND but if she isn’t prepared to go to the doctors I don’t know what more I can do and as PP’s have said I’m not actually helping long term if I continue I’m just papering over the cracks. A really rubbish situation!

She needs to learn to manage her baby herself. It seems between you and her mum you look after her kid more than she does. Looks like she's got far too comfortable with so much help. She doesn't get to get it easy. Tell her she needs to look after her child herself and tell her partner that he can get off his backside and help. Maybe your husband could have a word with her partner. Does he know how much help his Mrs is getting with their kid?

From the start my first thought is that her partner is pulling his weight and that's why she doesnt want your DP to talk to hers. Of course, it could be that he is abusive, I really hope thats not the case. Could you speak with your HV, anonymously describe the situation and see what she suggests you do?

Total piss take now. She wants to go out and partner won't have the baby?? You need to nip this in the bud immediately.

Just seen your update OP. She really doesn't seem to want her partner to know how much help she's getting with their kid does she. I did wonder if maybe he doesn't know how much she's palming off their baby while he's at work. She's already lied to you about her mum not helping when you've seen yourself that she clearly does. Is she a young mum?she sounds quite immature

Do you think you could speak to her mum when you see her at the baby class?

There is the possibility she is so upset at you wanting to tell her partner about things because he is as others suggests abusive, however there is also the possibility it's because she doesn't want him to know that she has both her mum and you helping out. Do you know if his family are around too? Is there also the chance she might even have roped his mum into a day or two as well?

You can definitely talk to your HV about this. The HV will not be able to comment but she will be grateful for your information.

You are right to be cautious with the "back on my feet" thing given her reluctance to seek help from GP/any professional.

Also I think right to be cautious that potentially the relationship may be abusive OR as you also considered, that he is helping more than she said. I probably would er on the side of caution of not raising it because if it is an abusive situation, it risks it becoming dangerous.

I don't know what more you can do though. HV is a possibility but likely to end up with baby being safeguarded so it escalates quickly but equally as it seems she truly cannot cope right now and won't get the help, not sure what more you can do because this absolutely isn't on you.

You might want to phrase your own difficulties with looking after all three as an inability to cope.

You seem very kind OP and very thoughtful.
I think speaking to the health visitor is a good idea. As you say, either she's really not coping and someone needs to intervene or she's fine and just trying it on but at least this would put your mind at rest if you told someone who is in a position to help

Wow @Cosmicpickle , she really kicked off. I think it's in everyone's best interest that you stick to your guns. It sounds like she tried every trick in the book to manipulate you and push your boundaries. I also wondered if the partner is helping more than she's letting on. Obviously she's lying about her mum. She's blocked every route and said no - the only thing she wants is for you to carry on. Two thoughts occur. One is the possibility that she has PND or hasn't bonded with the baby. Either of these can be helped (obviously she's refusing this). The other wonder is whether she's having an affair. I know it's hard, but please just be firm. This situation needs to be allowed to come to a head.

It’s possible to give support without giving free childcare. Her partner needs to either pay for a nanny or step up and become a parent himself.

How difficult Cosmic. If talking to her DH isn't an option, could you talk to her Mum about how vulnerable she seems to be and how she's refusing to seek support?
It must be such a pressure on you with her insisting that only you can help. She's not making good choices at all. Hopefully you're able to continue to resist her demands - you've two 2 littles yet she's refusing to seek any external or family support.

It has made me question really whether if she is downplaying the help she gets from her mum, maybe she is also downplaying the help she gets from her partner

100% she is downplaying it.

She doesn't want any of the 3 of you to know about each other.

She sounds like she has played you all very well, clever lady, and is worrying as now it is ending and she will have to parent her own child

It's a great idea to talk to the Health Visitor, as others have suggested. There is a baby in the middle of this. Questions need to be asked.

She is not a friend. She is taking the absolute fucking piss. You need to tell her that this arrangement no longer works for you and you have other priorities. Tell her she will need to ask family in future. Tough shit if she does not like it. I will bet she has never offered to help you out. What a fucking piss taker.