Should I accept proposal if I've never met his daughters?

[ZanySheep]

We have talked about marriage although bf is still going through his divorce. 3.5 years in, we live together with my kids (they call him step dad) he's met everyone on my side we are very very happy . His ex has said to him I will never be a part of their dd's lives (19&21yrs) still I have never met them because of this . They were living together when we met. They are still married going thru divorce. I have a feeling he will propose when divorce comes through.. my question is should I say yes if I've never met his girls ? I've met his parents , some friends. They live local he sees them every week , gives them money still . He's a brilliant dad . What are everyone's thoughts ?..

“He's still paying the mortgage and wouldn't have been able to afford to rent also”

You’ve been living together over three years, and he’s still paying his ex’s mortgage? He also couldn’t afford to live on his own. Sorry to ask, but is he paying his way in the household? Why is he still paying the mortgage all this time? Why hasn’t the house been sold, especially as his kids aren’t minors.

is this a classic mn case of ‘homeless’ man targeting single, financially secure, woman? ’

One of my close friends was in an almost identical situation. She never met his kids - who were also teenagers or young adults. She left after two years because she realised when her partner became a grandparent, when his kids got married, she would never be a part of that.

The bit I can't square is why the ex is so upset if her DH was already sleeping on the floor for a year. I'm in a similar situation and trying to keep stability for now because my kids have GCSEs and A levels in 2 months. But if my DH met someone else we've both already emotionally checked out. It might be a shock but I wouldn't hate him for it.

in this situation, even if they were still together, stopping the daughters from meeting OP is unreasonable.

I've seen many cases of cheating men who cheated again on their later wives, often the wife after that as well.

I have never once said he had no choice. I've made no excuses for either of us. He had a choice to make and he made it. He chose to pursue a relationship with me and having done that, he chose to tell her about it very quickly. That hurt her. I allowed him to pursue a relationship with me and that hurt her. It wasn't cynical, frivolous, recreational sex that could have been with anyone on a drunken night out, it was a strong connection that started long before we had sex and once we had sex just the whole thing escalated extremely quickly. Not that I expect that makes a difference to many people, but it's the truth.

We were all young and there were no children involved. Do I think it would have been any different had I still been married and had children, or if he'd had children by then? I don't know. I certainly hope so, but given the amount of people who do have affairs when they have children, I am not going to state categorically that it would never have happened.

In a Sliding Doors scenario where we'd met much later and children were involved, he'd still have been him, I'd still have been me, we'd still have developed the same strong connection. As someone who grew up with divorced parents due to infidelity, I've always known I have no desire for my children to go through that. I like to think I'd have removed myself from temptation, left my job and stoically put him to the back of my mind. Obviously as he's the father of my children, I like to imagine he'd have done the same. But can I swear to it? Of course not. I'm not in the habit of insisting either of us are perfect and infallible, not even hypothetically.

But then it's easy to imagine that I could do that, and hopefully that he could too, because I know we have been genuinely happy in our marriage. And I know how devoted he has been to his children and how doing anything that would seriously damage their opinions of him as their hero and protector would be untenable for him. But then most men who cheat and leave probably thought that at one point. Like I said earlier, this is when people have to apply some cognitive dissonance so they can look themselves in the eye each day.

Any person, however happily married, might at any time experience the challenge of randomly connecting with someone they develop a strong attraction to, recognising all the signs that it's mutual and potentially dangerous, and knowing that they need to remove themselves from that danger zone if they care about their marriage and their family. But how easy they find it to actually do that will probably depend largely on how fulfilled and how seen and heard they feel in their marriage to start with.

I make absolutely no excuses for his behaviour or mine, but I am not ashamed, I don't regret it and I wouldn't change it. I regret that in order for us to be together someone else had to be hurt, but that was unavoidable because we wanted the outcome we wanted. Selfish and self indulgent? Probably. Honest and pragmatic? Absolutely.

The other option is that we could both have been these noble, selfless martyrs of the kind that rarely exist among people in their twenties with no kids, facing up to the fact they have that one chance to make a massive change before children trap them forever. We could have forced ourselves to go completely no contact before any nascent emotional affair could become physical,. All so that one poor, unsuspecting 28 year old could keep her marriage, oblivious to the fact that her husband went to bed at night dreaming of being next to someone else. Oblivious to the fact that he was never fully emotionally present in their marriage, for a long, long time afterwards. Possibly never again.

Would he have got over me in time? Had a family with her and been a decent husband who never strayed? Possibly. But it's also possible that his feelings for her would have been forever changed and he'd have left eventually anyway.

Where would be the kindness in staying with someone, having kids with her, knowing you had, for a long time, really wished you were somewhere else and big part of you still did? Knowing that had the choice to leave been simpler and less complicated (ie, you were not already married) then you would have left her to be with that other person. How do you think she'd feel knowing she was your charity case and you were only still there because of how noble and principled you are?

There is little that is logical or rational about love. If there were, then affairs would never happen, all of us would only marry someone rich, successful and beautiful, someone with no previous children or baggage or any sort, no-one with any physical or mental health issues, no-one would ever marry someone quirky or an acquired taste who the rest of the world looks at and says 'WTF is the attraction to that weirdo/rude prick/limp rag?'

You can't just 'stop yourself' from falling in love with someone using logic. 🙄

Logic is what stops you signing up to dating sites out of 'curiosity' or 'needing a confidence boost' when you know you very well you shouldn't invite danger into your marriage.

Logic is what stops you chatting all night to a good looking bloke in a nightclub and letting him take your number, because you know absolutely no good can come of it.

Logic doesn't help you not fall in love with someone you sit opposite at work every day for three years and have got to know inside out on a platonic level and can't help feeling an intense emotional connection to.

Well all you've learnt here is how I justified it to myself. Don't assume I speak for your ex's OW or anyone elses. We aren't all one homogenous mass with a hive mind.

I see you are not denying your actions, but are still trying to mitigate or remove culpability

Basically you are just another cheater who is engaging in excuses and justifications seeking to alleviate either internal, or external judgments about the wrongness of your behaviour.

So, in common with many cheaters you tell others "we had a wonderful connection", "our feelings were so strong we couldn't fight it", "we had a meaningful relationship not a tacky affair", "we were meant to be" as if this in some way justifies what you did.

This sounds like a Hollywood script when in actual fact this is minimization and defeasibility — reframes the affair as uncontrollable, reducing perceived intent.

While you engage in psychological gymnastics, somewhere there is a wounded, broken woman.
The pain of infidelity lingers (sometimes for years) because the betrayed spouse is not just grieving what happened. They are grieving what they thought they had, what they believed was real, and who they believed the unfaithful partner was.

I hope you and your partner stay together for life, because that will keep two selfish, entitled, deluded, disordered individuals out of the dating pool and leave it clear for honourable people to form honest relationships.

😂I am NOT trying to mitigate or remove culpability. I accept culpability. I do not accept that staying with someone knowing damn well you'd rather be with someone else and making them an unwitting part of your owngoing lie and sham of a 'technically faithful' marriage is any sort of solution. Reaching that conclusion isn't an attempt at mitigation. It's just a pragmatic viewpoint that acknowledges the truth of the situation.

So how you you think someone should proceed, having realised they have met someone who has completely changed the way they feel about their spouse and find they no longer want to be in the marriage? Even if they haven't been unfaithful they can't stop wishing they could be. Because it happens. It happens to decent, normal people all the time.

Please do tell. Obviously they could stoically remove themselves from the source of their temptation. Then what? At what point can they say they are truly be free of any blame or sin or crime, if their feelings still lead them to wanting to leave anyway? Or if they stay but never stop thinking abou the other person? Is the feeling itself the crime? Because I am afraid there is no cure or solution to that. Never has been, never will be. If you are the sort who thinks that no marriage breakdown is acceptable for any reason ever, then just say so.

Some of you people inhabit a very over-simplified dream world, don't you?

Regardless of the reasons why, a man who has ‘no regrets’ about losing his relationship with his own children is no prize. Good, decent men would always regret losing that relationship with their own children, even if the reason wasn’t their fault at all. How callous to say ‘no regrets’ about a man losing his relationship with his children. You sound well suited if he really doesn’t regret even that part.

Started by agreeing with this, but hadn’t seen the updates (novice error, I know).

You were the other woman….

Tricky….

I have 2 late teen children whose dad ran off with another woman, he is now married to another lady, my kids have zero interest in spending any time whatsoever with the 'stepmother' whom they've met twice. However when he first went off with the ow (not who he married) my kids were younger and told me and him categorically that they would never have anything to do with her. So the chances are his grown children will never want anything to do with you, and that's their absolute choice. I doubt it has anything to do with his exw.

I see you continue to try and justify your bad behaviour.

Who are you trying to convince, me, other posters or yourself ?

And stop asking me what I think you should have done. You created this situation and you dealt with it.

If you advertise your hurtful life choices on this site, then you'll get some opinions you may not like.
So maybe you should be a little less visible?

Maybe, but you definitely can stop yourself having sex with someone else while you're married.

Yeah, there was a drip feed ..l

Absolutely agree

Me too. After my friend committed suicide her cheating husband married his affair partner then cheated on her within 6 months of the wedding.

Sadly some people just can’t keep their underwear on and constantly chase a new thrill

@HeadDeskHeadDesk "Logic doesn't help you not fall in love with someone you sit opposite at work every day for three years and have got to know inside out on a platonic level and can't help feeling an intense emotional connection to."

Logic should have kicked in when the connection became apparent and one of you should have asked for a transfer.
Even swingers have scruples, in that they don't let their activities threaten the primary relationship.
The fact that this was allowed to happen in your situation shows a lack of both self control and boundaries.

And all this "knowing someone inside out" stuff is rubbish when people have a "work persona" that they use in their employment. (If they are professionals, that is.)
If you were discussing anything else than work, on work, time then the pair of you were doing your employer a great disservice.

Okay, so let's say we hadn't had sex but we were still heading into EA territory. If he'd told his wife he was leaving her because he had feelings for me and she asked if we'd had sex and he'd said no, do you think she'd believe him?

If she'd come on MN and said 'he swears nothing has happened between them yet' do you think there is even the smallest chance that anyone on here would believe him? Because after reading hundreds of threads like that over the years, I can guarantee you not one woman on here would give him the benefit of the doubt.

If she'd said 'he says he's realised he wants to be single and free to pursue other relationships but he 100% isn't sleeping with anyone else at the moment' how many women on here would say 'Oh well, at least he's doing the decent thing and being honest with you now instead of just having affairs. Good on him. That's exactly the right way to go about it.'

Come on now. 😂There would be 15 pages of 'He's lying. He's totally shagging someone else.'

It seems it doesn't matter what way you cut this, developing feelings for someone else is plainly unforgivable and you have no right to feel that way whatsoever. Even if you manage to not sleep with her it makes no difference really and no-one will believe you anyway.

You can leave your wife for absolutely any other reason, obviously. That's all just part of exercising your free will to choose. It sucks for her whatever the reason, but if you are not happy you are entitled to leave

You've decided you don't want children and you know she does? Fine. Leave. She's got too fat and you don't find her attractive any more? Fine. Leave. You think she's a controlling PITA who won't let you go to the pub with your mates? You've decided want to be free to devote more time to mountain biking across the world? All perfectly fine.

But what you clearly can't do is ever admit to simply wanting to be with someone else.

Have you never heard of water cooler chat, or Friday evening drinks after work, or lunch breaks?

Who cares what other people believe! He would have acted with integrity and honesty, instead of lying and cheating.
Of course all break ups are painful, but he treated his wife with such disrespect in the process, and showed himself to be a liar. He treated his ex awfully, that was his choice and caused pain. However you choose to spin it to make it more palatable to yourself, you both took actions that show a lack of integrity and respect for an innocent person and caused huge pain. I'm glad your relationship is good now, but you can't deny that it is built on a foundation of deceit and deliberately inflicted pain.

Money doesn’t make you a brilliant dad

This is, of course, what he told you.

Either way definitely don’t marry a man who can’t share a major part of his life with you. It might be that this is the hurdle that ends your relationship.

That’s sad, but a more positive future is ahead of you.

Not in my line of work.

No water coolers, lunch breaks were for lunching not chatting up other people's husbands, by the time you'd changed out of your uniform and back again. walked back and forth to the canteen you were lucky if you got half an hour. After a week of dealing with sick/injured/terminally ill people, who has the energy to go to the pub?

Some people don't know what real work is.

The reason people get 15 pages of "There will be another woman" when their husband says "I'm not happy but there isn't anyone else involved" is because there nearly always IS someone else.

Women grow unhappy in a relationship and decide they would be better off alone. Men grow unhappy and look for someone else to make them happier. You say ...even if you manage not to sleep with her... like that's a real challenge! I'm sure your partner hasn't had sex with the majority of women he has met at work?

"so say we hadn't had sex" but presumably you had. And then you wonder why women say "there's already a woman".