Conflicted after DS hit DD and she fought back and beat him up?

[ForAmpleRobin]

Bit of sibling drama today and I’m not sure if I’m handling it right.

My DD is 9 and my DS is 11. Lately there’s been a bit of tension because she’s actually stronger and faster than him at a lot of things like running and general physical things. DD and my niece have started doing cross country and the girls have been practicing whilst we’ve been out on family walks as well as racing each other. DS is quite competitive and I think it bothers him more than he lets on that DD and his cousin are faster and stronger than him.

They were messing around earlier in the garden doing races and silly “strength competitions” like who can get who on the ground first and DS got increasingly annoyed when DD and DN kept winning. It escalated into him hitting his sister and trying to subdue her but she fought back.
She ended up properly beating him up. DN quickly came and told me about it and then I had to carry him inside and DH took DN home. He is covered in cuts and his bruises are starting to show up.

Obviously I’ve told them that hitting isn’t acceptable, but if I’m being completely honest I also felt proud that she’s confident and doesn’t back down. At the same time I know DS is feeling humiliated by being beaten up by his younger sister and that DN will spread it to the rest of the family. However this would help him learn his lesson!

AIBU for feeling conflicted about this? How would you handle it with both of them? I feel like I don’t know what the best punishment would be? I was thinking of grounding them both for fighting but then DD was in self defence so is it unfair and shall I just ground DS?

He's almost three years older yet not as strong or fast. I'd be concerned about that if he was her older sister tbh. Girls can be very strong if they hit puberty early of course. Not sure about the speed element. Sounds like both have a short temper. The pp who suggested getting them to write letters to each other has a good point. They might not feel like talking it out right now.

It is shocking that DD beat up another person . It wasn't just a shove in self defence, she continued hitting presumably even when he was on the floor. She needs telling that this is not OK.
You could punish them both for fighting or just tell them they are both too big to play fight and it needs to stop completely now.

She didn’t just hit back harder, she beat him until he was bruised and bleeding.

And she absolutely should be taught to back off- fight back to whatever extent is necessary to get away from the aggressor and then run for help. To teach her anything else or to ‘stand her ground and teach them a lesson’ would be very dangerous- in this situation, it was her brother who she is physically stronger than. But if it was someone bigger or stronger than her, standing her ground could get her seriously injured.

It would not be a good thing if she came out of this situation feeling super confident in her ability to win a fight- she won THIS fight, but might not next time. Much safer to teach children to avoid a fight whenever possible, and if you must fight, get away at the first opportunity.

even if it is a fake, some of the FAFO responses are definitely worrying. How could anybody dislike one of their children so much that they are "proud" when an older sibling beats them up?

I think giving him a chance to be confident in his own skills so he doesn’t feel diminished. The world is sexist and yes, it’s good for a girl to be strong and capable but not ok for a boy to be diminished. They don’t have to have the same strengths and should eventually be able to take joy in each other’s abilities.

yup. also morally better too

You are not being unreasonable to be conflicted. But I think you need to work on your DS, not necessarily through punishment which rarely leads to a change of heart, but in a way that makes it absolutely clear what he did wasn't acceptable. His humiliation is, in part, misogyny and as he gets older, goes through puberty and gets stronger he's not going to be beaten by girls anymore and he needs to have some understanding of the biological differences and how they were a vital part of him coming into existence, and of the need to treat women and girls with with more restraint. I would suggest that this is a lesson that best comes from his dad.

And your DD - while it's good that she was able to fight back and not be beaten up herself, probably needs to learn some restraint too since it sounds like she did more than she needed to, which is not something to laud.

Absolutely

Your daughter needs to be punished equally as harshly as her brother. She didn’t just hit him. She beat her brother (a skinnier less strong child) so badly that he couldn’t walk. This was violent and not self defence.

I think I missed this bit, so he wasnt hitting her out of just random frustration of not 'winning', he was being physically pushed around and down on the floor?

Both sound awful, you must be so proud. 😳

I have three grown up children and I can honestly say that physical violence between any of them would never have been tolerated. Boy or girl does not come into it. Do not allow fighting. No ifs or buts.

I agree. Its strange to experience glee knowing your child has been beaten up.

I am not agreeing with your son but its natural that he feels frustrated or humiliated that his younger sister is stronger than him.

Younger daughter should have subdued him, not gone to town and beaten him up. Thats plain disgusting. I would never have done that to any of my brothers.

You seem just, if not more, immature than both of them.

Yeah I read that they were roughhousing but the implications of that (that he was probably getting pushed over a lot) had gone over my head rather. It’s not really a game if the DD and DN are significantly stronger and he’s being repeatedly pushed to the floor. Hitting her was still absolutely wrong and requires consequences, but being pushed to the floor repeatedly by your younger sibling and cousin would be enough to test the restraint of a lot of children I think.

I’d add to my previous answer that physical competitions between the siblings should no longer be allowed. A bit of competition can be healthy, but clearly it isn’t in this case. DD can compete against her cousin if she wants to. I’d be telling both children that neither is to instigate this sort of play again and that if either does, the other must refuse and come and let an adult know so you can issue a reminder.

I'd be a bit secretly pleased with her too tbh.

Phones off them for the weekend sounds a good plan.

Get them both to look up "One Punch" (a charity) and have a discussion with each of them separately reiterating that violence is wrong and that any self defence should be measured.

I disagree with you about rough housing. I'm not really a fan of play fighting and have always discouraged it with my own kids. They are more than old enough to not be having physical alterations with their siblings. I'd be concerned if I had an 11 year old boy who was so jealous of his sister's abilities that he became violent towards her.

You mention they both have phones. Is he watching toxic content online? It's everywhere.

Yes the OP said
silly “strength competitions” like who can get who on the ground first and DS got increasingly annoyed when DD and DN kept winning.

That sounds like tackling, shoving, wrestling to me.

this is awful - physical violence is a big no no, no matter who started or why. It is so damaging

give your head a wobble and take control of your family beofre there’s more damage

Your poor DS! Frankly, I kind of feel like you’ve failed in parenting here. You know he’s conscious of his lack of strength and speed, probably amplified at secondary school, and are allowing him to “play fight” with his sister and cousin when you’ve already acknowledged their physical differences. You shouldn’t be proud of your DD at all! Honestly, shame on you. You allowed the girls to taunt and tease him and when he reacted, your DD hurt him to the extent he couldn’t walk and was bruised and bleeding. I’d fucking hit the roof with your DD’s behaviour.

Absolutely nothing to be proud of in carrying one of your children into the house covered in cuts and bruises after being beaten up by their sibling.

You need to stop projecting these ridiculous feelings and sort out why both of them think that resorting to their fists is the answer to anything.

Fucking horrendous dynamics in this family 🫤

So now its clarified that he was being bullied and physically pushed around by her and the neice, I'll wait for al the 'she deserved it' for him hitting her

and a fight can result in serious injuries or a fatality

They were both bad as each other. No one is coming out great in this including you OP. Both need to have consequences and you need to have a long hard think if there is anything in your parenting that allows this sort of situation to occur in the first place.

ForAmpleRobin
I get you, he's got a problem with his sister being better than him whilst he grudgingly harbours a vindictive streak feeling that she shouldn't
What got me was him hitting her thinking this would "subdue her" but she fought back
And as he will see it 'won'
You've got to tell him he was wrong to start with because resentfully lashing out at the opposite sex when you're angry shows you're wrong as its unacceptable to beat/hit any woman you feel you've got "issues" with and
You've also got to tell her that although she defended herself, she went too far
But I don't totally feel she was in the wrong here; in defending herself if I'm honest because how do you know whats totally happened before?
Im not sure what you'd do for punishment though because I don't think this is just a "good telling off needed" scenario
But the boy has to be dealt with now because he's probably growing/getting taller but not thinking as we write

You need to teach your daughter that the goal of self defence is to create an opportunity to flee. She should have used enough force to get away and then let you handle it. Agree with other people no more playfighting.